Al's Place Quantum Leap Online Community

Al's Place Quantum Leap Online Community (http://quantumleap-alsplace.com/forum/index.php)
-   Quantum Leap: Season Five (http://quantumleap-alsplace.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=61)
-   -   506 Deliver Us From Evil <AKA Evil Leaper I> (http://quantumleap-alsplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1575)

Sam Beckett Fan 06-17-2014 12:21 AM

LMAO! Exactly hence shy she'd literally blown a fuse and zapped Beeks across the control room.

Lightning McQueenie 06-17-2014 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 61175)
LMAO! Exactly hence shy she'd literally blown a fuse and zapped Beeks across the control room.

That's how I'd go out too - taking as many people with me as I could :P hahaha

Lightning McQueenie 07-28-2014 09:49 AM

Well I just had a Fridge Brilliance moment. We couldn't really make sense of the resetting of the leap. But if we think about it - they lost two days, which is how long Sam had been there. They were redoing EXACTLY the same thing that happened at the end of the B**gieman! It makes perfect sense, since GTFW reset the leap to undo Satan's influence in the B**gieman, the same thing SHOULD happen when Satan takes the reigns again :)

Sam Beckett Fan 07-28-2014 05:21 PM

That's exactly what I was saying my apologies that I wasn't clear and I hadn't thought to use the Boogiem*n comparison.
Though it has always been my theory that Alia's leaping is being run by Satan whether they entertain the thought or not as PQL believes God is running Sam's leaps.
Zoey does make an ironic comment that they'd "clawed their way out of hell" to earn home wrecking assignments instead of murder.

servo75 02-04-2016 12:37 AM

Some Thought Questions
 
I know Alia was supposedly evil and was out to counter Sam's actions but do you think that Alia genuinely has feelings for Sam or was the whole thing set up from the beginning?

Why was Zoe surprised to learn about Sam? If the Evil Leaper Project was created as a reaction to PQL, then Zoe should have known Sam was there. She did seem genuinely surprised.

If Alia and Sam could see each other, why couldn't they see each others' holograms. When Zoe is trying to get Alia to shoot Sam, Sam says "don't listen to her" as if he could hear Zoe.

servo75 02-04-2016 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie (Post 61278)
Well I just had a Fridge Brilliance moment. We couldn't really make sense of the resetting of the leap. But if we think about it - they lost two days, which is how long Sam had been there. They were redoing EXACTLY the same thing that happened at the end of the B**gieman! It makes perfect sense, since GTFW reset the leap to undo Satan's influence in the B**gieman, the same thing SHOULD happen when Satan takes the reigns again :)

Well yes but assuming that Sam leaped in directly to counter Alia, the leap should never have happened in the first place, but we have to assume that Alia's refusal to shoot Sam didn't erase the previous two days, so that's still confusing.

servo75 02-04-2016 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie (Post 61171)
Ah yes, the plane crashes, the outbreak of flu, the seventeen floods :P

I could picture Ziggy reading all these changes and just being like...

Well what do they say about a butterfly's wings causing a hurricane... :b

servo75 02-04-2016 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChickenStu (Post 59920)
That maybe Sam and Al knew someone who they used to be friends with and bought them to work on the project. Yet some sort of conflict arose causing them to have to fire him.

Interesting idea. My theory about the origins of the Evil PQL may have something to do with the extra handlink left behind in "Leap Back". Of course if the whole idea was to counter Project Quantum Leap, why did Zoe not know about Sam before that leap? Maybe Lothos knew but kept it secret.

servo75 02-04-2016 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 61157)
Not necessarily true, Alia could have transitioned into the reading lessons as something new "Connie" had decided to try.

I think that it's something Connie had been doing. Lothos could have known this and convinced Alia to do this as to not arouse suspicion. Besides, if Alia's objective was to wreck the marriage, then how would teaching Jimmy to read accomplish that?

Lightning McQueenie 02-04-2016 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by servo75 (Post 61909)
I know Alia was supposedly evil and was out to counter Sam's actions but do you think that Alia genuinely has feelings for Sam or was the whole thing set up from the beginning?

I think the feelings were genuine, we can tell because Sam gets through to her with the "you felt it too" comment at the end...

Quote:

Why was Zoe surprised to learn about Sam? If the Evil Leaper Project was created as a reaction to PQL, then Zoe should have known Sam was there. She did seem genuinely surprised.
Zoe may have known of Sam's theories, but that doesn't mean she would necessarily know that he was leaping around in time too.

Quote:

If Alia and Sam could see each other, why couldn't they see each others' holograms. When Zoe is trying to get Alia to shoot Sam, Sam says "don't listen to her" as if he could hear Zoe.
Sam and Alia touching was enough to break through the auras surrounding them so they could see each other, but each hologram is only tuned into each leaper's brainwaves. There would need to be a brainwave connection (not just breaking through an aura) to be able to see the other hologram.

And before you ask, in Revenge of the Evil Leaper, Alia can see Thames because Zoe is linked to both Alia's and Thames' brainwaves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by servo75 (Post 61910)
Well yes but assuming that Sam leaped in directly to counter Alia, the leap should never have happened in the first place, but we have to assume that Alia's refusal to shoot Sam didn't erase the previous two days, so that's still confusing.

I don't understand what you mean here. Sam did leap in to directly counter Alia - if the leap "never happened" how could he have countered Alia?

Quote:

Originally Posted by servo75 (Post 61912)
Interesting idea. My theory about the origins of the Evil PQL may have something to do with the extra handlink left behind in "Leap Back". Of course if the whole idea was to counter Project Quantum Leap, why did Zoe not know about Sam before that leap? Maybe Lothos knew but kept it secret.

Again, we don't have any confirmation that Zoe was actually involved in the creation of their project, only that she ended up being the hologram (although she was originally going to be the leaper but suggested Alia as a favour).

Quote:

Originally Posted by servo75 (Post 61913)
I think that it's something Connie had been doing. Lothos could have known this and convinced Alia to do this as to not arouse suspicion. Besides, if Alia's objective was to wreck the marriage, then how would teaching Jimmy to read accomplish that?

Even though I think Connie was teaching Jimmy to read even before Alia's arrival, I think Alia was taking it to another level on purpose, so that all the attention she is placing on Jimmy would Frank would feel neglected...

TheLeaper 06-03-2016 03:31 PM

Alia actually falls for that "you kill me and you'll kill yourself" stuff?

Sam Beckett Fan 07-21-2016 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by servo75 (Post 61913)
I think that it's something Connie had been doing. Lothos could have known this and convinced Alia to do this as to not arouse suspicion. Besides, if Alia's objective was to wreck the marriage, then how would teaching Jimmy to read accomplish that?

It wasn't the reading lessons themselves that were significant it was about neglecting the marriage by occupying all of Connie's time and effort with them.

We see that it's successful right out of the gate in the first scene:
"Great. She remembers your article, but she forgets my lunch."

Then once again at the dinner table:

"I am trying to help Jimmy. It takes a lot of time and a lot of effort."
"Yeah, well, you're pushing him too hard."
"Did you read that stuff about the space program I gave you today?"
"Yeah."
"Did you understand it?"
"Gemini VllI had to make an emergency landing. They had a problem with their thrusters."
"That's wonderful! Aren't you proud of him? All we have to do is push him a little more. He's great."
"Yeah, that's right, Connie. And he nearly drove a forklift off the pier today.
He could have killed himself. You know, you're pushing him too hard. You're trying to build up a false confidence."
"I'm sorry. I'm just trying to help."
"Just leave that to the doctor. Your job is supposed to be here taking care of the house. I mean, look at this place! It's a mess."


Quote:

Originally Posted by servo75
Well yes but assuming that Sam leaped in directly to counter Alia, the leap should never have happened in the first place, but we have to assume that Alia's refusal to shoot Sam didn't erase the previous two days, so that's still confusing.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you are arguing here.
All I can respond to is that it's unclear what exactly allowed the damage Alia did to be erased, so we can't assume anything.

I've been considering, was Sam, in fact, sent to counter Alia or perhaps to save her? Remember she was essentially a prisoner of her project, manipulated, tortured into being their puppet. Ergo, her situation was a wrong that needed righting and when their paths crossed, he brought her hope, a chance just as he does to anyone he encounters during a leap.

It's for this reason that, to answer this question:
Quote:

Originally Posted by servo75
I know Alia was supposedly evil and was out to counter Sam's actions but do you think that Alia genuinely has feelings for Sam or was the whole thing set up from the beginning?

Her feelings for him were, in fact, genuine throughout and after the 'You're not evil Alia, whatever is jumping you around in time is' speech. That hope grew in her eyes the more he argued against Lothos, that she could take control and say 'no' to something she didn't want to do. He got through to her because that person that he described was the person she really wanted to be.

Also, consider that it's only after she's freed that he never encounters her again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by servo75
My theory about the origins of the Evil PQL may have something to do with the extra handlink left behind in "Leap Back".

This is my theory as well and that the cassette recording of Sam's sodium pentothal session in 'Starlight Starbright' was involved as well. That tape revealed PQL's clearance number.

Quote:

Originally Posted by servo75
Of course if the whole idea was to counter Project Quantum Leap, why did Zoe not know about Sam before that leap? Maybe Lothos knew but kept it secret.

Because Zoey had to request for Alia to go as the leaper in her place, I believe it's safe to say that she's merely an employee of the project it's creator's theoretical knowledge of Sam doesn't indicate that the employees are informed.

Lightning McQueenie 07-21-2016 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan (Post 62141)
It wasn't the reading lessons themselves that were significant it was about neglecting the marriage by occupying all of Connie's time and effort with them.

We see that it's successful right out of the gate in the first scene:
"Great. She remembers your article, but she forgets my lunch."

Then once again at the dinner table:

"I am trying to help Jimmy. It takes a lot of time and a lot of effort."
"Yeah, well, you're pushing him too hard."
"Did you read that stuff about the space program I gave you today?"
"Yeah."
"Did you understand it?"
"Gemini VllI had to make an emergency landing. They had a problem with their thrusters."
"That's wonderful! Aren't you proud of him? All we have to do is push him a little more. He's great."
"Yeah, that's right, Connie. And he nearly drove a forklift off the pier today.
He could have killed himself. You know, you're pushing him too hard. You're trying to build up a false confidence."
"I'm sorry. I'm just trying to help."
"Just leave that to the doctor. Your job is supposed to be here taking care of the house. I mean, look at this place! It's a mess."



Yes and not only neglecting the housework, but also neglecting Corey - she didn't give a fat rats where he was at night and Corey even said he believed that his mother didn't love him, and probably neglecting her nightly duties with Frank (if you know what I mean ;) ) which is probably what caused his wandering eye in the first place... Zoe was probably egging her on to at least have one ride though :P

Quote:

I've been considering, was Sam, in fact, sent to counter Alia or perhaps to save her? Remember she was essentially a prisoner of her project, manipulated, tortured into being their puppet. Ergo, her situation was a wrong that needed righting and when their paths crossed, he brought her hope, a chance just as he does to anyone he encounters during a leap.
I don't think so, not at this stage anyway. I expect that Alia had always followed her commands without thinking that there could be another way out, and she definitely hadn't experienced the torture that she was put through after her failure. It was really only after she said that what she experienced was "worse than death" in part 2 that Sam made a plan to free her...

Sam Beckett Fan 07-21-2016 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie
I don't think so, not at this stage anyway. I expect that Alia had always followed her commands without thinking that there could be another way out, and she definitely hadn't experienced the torture that she was put through after her failure. It was really only after she said that what she experienced was "worse than death" in part 2 that Sam made a plan to free her...

Perhaps assuming she'd been tortured before this was irrational but she still could have been under manipulation.
I concur that prior to crossing paths with Sam, she'd obeyed orders with the belief that there was nothing else but that doesn't indicate that she wasn't manipulated into participating in the first place.

Her obedience doesn't indicate that she was alright with it, she wouldn't have ever voiced it because she didn't believe it would accomplish anything and perhaps she'd anticipated that she could be punished for having treacherous thoughts.
Recall that she'd fought for the 'privilege' of doing the lighter assignments vs. murder.
"We had to claw our way out of hell to land simple assignments like homewrecking and adultery!"
It can be assessed that the 'we' wasn't genuine because Zoey doesn't have any objection, ruining and flushing out lives fills her with the glee of a child on Christmas morning, hence why she was the original choice as the leaper.
When she ordered Alia to kill Sam the first thing out of her mouth was:

I concur with the theory that their project was created directly to counter Sam which Alia and even Zoey clearly didn't know, suggesting that both of them are pawns, both manipulated in some form.
I'm willing to consider that perhaps Zoey actually believed what she tried to convince Alia of regarding the way out because she herself was manipulated into believing it.

I still believe that inside her, Alia did feel something genuine for Sam prior to the speech. She'd regarded him with fascination when she'd asked "do you always think about the other people?" . He'd already gotten to her by the time she was given the order to kill him because her immediate response was doubt.
"Why? He hasn't tried to stop us."
She just needed to have a gun put in her hand to be able to acknowledge that she was stewing over him almost the entire time which supports that she'd been conceding to her role for at least for a while.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:56 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2000 - 2016 Al's Place Quantum Leap Fan Site | 4.8.15.16.23.42