401 The Leap Back

The Leap Back


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That makes perfect sense Julia. I don't think it has as much to do with family winning over friends as it does who's fate is worse. I always thought that Sam does see Al as family. Or at least Al thinks of Sam as family especially consitering that he has no other. So if Sam had to make a choice I would think it would be more a clash of the fates than family vs. friends. Although it costed Al three years of freedom, he gets through it alive eaither way whereas Tom can not servive without Sam's help.

That is how I understand where you are coming from opting that Sam would save Tom over Al if required to make a choice.
 
OK - Watched this ep for the last for the first time last night and I thought it was great fun, probably assisted by the fact It was Sunday night (probably still is where you guys are) and I'd had a couple of beers.

Revenge is mine..... LOVED IT
Donna.........Blah!!!!
Sam with more of Als brain........PERFECT!!!
Al's with more of Sam's brain........boring!!!
Tina.........what a ditz!
Gooshie..........what a sweety
Ziggy.........hmmmm not sure.

Read some of the comments above about Donna saying "I don' care" when the comment was made about how many times al had saved sams life. I think she really did care, she just didn't want to care because it meant she'd lose sam again, but of course she knew she did care and she had to let him go... make sense? Hope so.
 
Bexter said:
I think she really did care, she just didn't want to care because it meant she'd lose sam again, but of course she knew she did care and she had to let him go... make sense? Hope so.
I understood Bexter and I agree with you completely. As I tried to say in my first post here(but Julia who is the main one that thought Donna was being selfish; did not seem to agree) was that her hubby who has been gone from her life for four years has finally returned to her but she barely got to welcome him home and he has to leave again. So it was just that she was upset about finally having her hubby back after four years of missing him and wondering if he will make it home only to have him turn around and leave again; not that she did not care about Al's life.
 
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Bexter said:
Al's with more of Sam's brain........boring!!!

:roflmao:

Bexter said:
Tina.........what a ditz!

Oh, poor Tina. She had such a short time to make an impression, and this is what we got--an awful squeaky-voiced bimbo. I've always felt that there has to be more to her than this, because why would Al stay with her for 4 years?

Bexter said:
Read some of the comments above about Donna saying "I don' care" when the comment was made about how many times al had saved sams life. I think she really did care, she just didn't want to care because it meant she'd lose sam again, but of course she knew she did care and she had to let him go... make sense? Hope so.

I agree, I don't think Donna meant that literally. I always imagine her thinking, "We'll find some other way to save Al--just don't leave me again!"
 
Snish said:
Oh, poor Tina. She had such a short time to make an impression, and this is what we got--an awful squeaky-voiced bimbo. I've always felt that there has to be more to her than this, because why would Al stay with her for 4 years?

This is why I like to think of her the way the novels have her, as the second highest IQ in the project. Just because she's a ditz does not mean she can't be smart.

Snish said:
I agree, I don't think Donna meant that literally. I always imagine her thinking, "We'll find some other way to save Al--just don't leave me again!"

Yeah exactly if she were truely being selfish she would have said something like
"Screw Al dammit! I have been waiting for you and worrying for four years I am not going to lose you again!"
 
Snish said:
Oh, poor Tina. She had such a short time to make an impression, and this is what we got--an awful squeaky-voiced bimbo. I've always felt that there has to be more to her than this, because why would Al stay with her for 4 years?

Great sex maybe? :lol :lol :lol
 
Bexter said:
Great sex maybe? :lol :lol :lol

Bexter, you think like a man. :lol I mean that in a good way. :D

Considering Al's roving eye, it would have to be spectacular sex. I mean, you can always find someone else for that.

I don't see a need to make Tina a genius though. Everyone at the project doesn't need to be a genius. One or two per project should be enough. Her title in "A Leap for Lisa" is "pulse communications technician"--basically, a receptionist ("pulse communications" means telephone, more or less) or some kind of low-level technician.

So I think she has something else Al needs, some aspect of her personality.
 
ok... so about Donna and her issue with Sam leaving her again... Its very sweet that she wants to be a little "selfish" but not in a bad way. I mean true she did just get Sam back and then has to turn around and have her whole world crash again.. Here is my Theory for this... lol Go with me on this people.. lol ok soooo Sam said himself (just as he was getting prepared to leap into al to save him) That when the lightning strike simo-leaped himself and Al that some of their Neurons and mason's had obviously merged... "part of me is Al". He said, because of this he now knew how to hit the bulls eye... "I can leap into Al"... Ok so that being said we all know that Sam And Al are Connected forever..... Sam Told Gooshie to "Set the Accelerator Chamber for June 15th 1945 (i believe that was the date) which means he can not only leap into Al but he can also Dial in the exact year... ok soooo that being said, Since Sam and Donna or (project quantum Leap) is set in 1999, then in Reality When sam was Talking to Donna and was about to get into the accelerator Chamber, Al had been Dead for 50 years.!! Sam could have waited 20 years and then just told Gooshie to set the Chamber for june 15 1945 and Leaped into Al and saved him then!!!!!! He would have had time to spend with Donna and Save Al.. The only Difference would be that when Al saw all again Sam would have aged a bit.. lol OR.... Sam Could have Leaped into Al right after THE VERY FIRST LEAP (Genisis) and figured out for himself why the retrieval program wasnt working... Then just all would have been fine... lol i know, im just having fun with this but if you can follow me then you'll know these theories could have worked..


Brad
 
NeuroMason said:
ok... so about Donna and her issue with Sam leaving her again... Its very sweet that she wants to be a little "selfish" but not in a bad way. I mean true she did just get Sam back and then has to turn around and have her whole world crash again.. Here is my Theory for this... lol Go with me on this people.. lol ok soooo Sam said himself (just as he was getting prepared to leap into al to save him) That when the lightning strike simo-leaped himself and Al that some of their Neurons and mason's had obviously merged... "part of me is Al". He said, because of this he now knew how to hit the bulls eye... "I can leap into Al"... Ok so that being said we all know that Sam And Al are Connected forever..... Sam Told Gooshie to "Set the Accelerator Chamber for June 15th 1945 (i believe that was the date) which means he can not only leap into Al but he can also Dial in the exact year... ok soooo that being said, Since Sam and Donna or (project quantum Leap) is set in 1999, then in Reality When sam was Talking to Donna and was about to get into the accelerator Chamber, Al had been Dead for 50 years.!! Sam could have waited 20 years and then just told Gooshie to set the Chamber for june 15 1945 and Leaped into Al and saved him then!!!!!! He would have had time to spend with Donna and Save Al.. The only Difference would be that when Al saw all again Sam would have aged a bit.. lol OR.... Sam Could have Leaped into Al right after THE VERY FIRST LEAP (Genisis) and figured out for himself why the retrieval program wasnt working... Then just all would have been fine... lol i know, im just having fun with this but if you can follow me then you'll know these theories could have worked..


Brad
I take your point, but the flaw with this theory (other than ruining a dramatic moment in an episode that only had minutes left to run of course! :p )
is that Sam could not be sure the Accelerator would still work after 20 years, or 2, or 2 months - funding could be cut, any number of reasons could stop it from being usable. Besides, could you enjoy relaxing with your partner knowing you'd left your best friend to die? Sam isn't like that.
Most people wouldn't be, I believe, able to relax and say "Oh I can go and save him anytime, there's no urgency."
 
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lol yeah.. i understand. However, whats done is done and the fact is that in 1999 History had already been writen... Sam could have stayed longer and tried to correct the problem with retrieval... He also could have simply leaped into Al in the year 1998 or 1999. Hey i wonder if Al could get into the accelerator chamber and Leap back into Sam (Switch places again)?? Anyways, lol i know there isnt enough time on the show to do all this but its still kinda fun to think about the possibilities. :) Or maybe im just wishin Don would read some of these and Bring the show back!! lol So much history had happened since "Mirror Image". Could you imagine Sam Leaping into a fire fighter just before 911 and trying to stop it from happening but finding out that he is actually there to help as many people as he could to get out of the building or something.. Maybe it could be kind of like the lee harvey ozwald episode.. He could leap into many different people through out the story.. Maybe he was one of the fire fighters that held the American Flag up thats so famous in that picture.. A story like this would be very moving...


Brad
 
Nueromason said:
Al had been Dead for 50 years.!! Sam could have waited 20 years and then just told Gooshie to set the Chamber for june 15 1945 and Leaped into Al and saved him then!!!!!! He would have had time to spend with Donna and Save Al..

I congradulate you for very clever thinking; but sorry this is not accurate. Remember how in Boogiem*n God rewound the leap when he saw Sam in danger and the task destroyed? Well I have a mind to believe(well after someone else suggested it first, Snish seems to come to memory for some reason) that if HE was willing to rewind the leap for Sam than why not Al as well. I think Al would have also been sent back to the beginning of the leap for a due over. I don't believe HE would let Al die like he didn't let Sam.
 
who knows ... lol all i do know is that can make Handlink Replicas in case anybody wants to open an imaging chamber door!! :) Take a look at my Thread titled "The Handlink"



Brad
 
This was a great episode for me to watch. One advantage of watching the reruns for the rist time is that the most one has to usually wait is one weekend for the next episode. Even better when a season finale and a season opening are one day apart from each other.

I loved this episode, especially how Al had to cope with all this. And it was nice to see Al's current wife. I thought that the high-pitched voice and the dumb attitude were a bit much, but I digress. This was one of the those episodes that I could watch again and again.

Of course, it could just be me, but I was happy that at the end, things went back to business as usual. Sam had to leap in time, Al had to help while sprinkling some off-colored remarks in the process, and Gooshie and the rest had to keep running Ziggy to try and get Sam out of his next problem.

When I first watched this episode, I thought "this should have been a season finale episode". After all, it would have made the fact that Sam would have leaped home much more probable. However, after writing this, I think that it was a good idea to put this at the beginning, because it really reaffirmed Sam's missions, and gave some insight that people could take with them as the season took off.
 
In this episode one can see hints that Sam will not return: Ziggy couldn't pull him back, Sam speaks from the sky.
By the way, Al tells Sam's wife that he is in a shape of a comic (I think, it's episode Stand Up) but there we don't see that Sam sends any messager to his wife:hmm
 
Staupau, I only recently realized what your name means. That should have been a question in the trivia contest!
 
I just watched this episode again after seeing it when it first aired, and I have to say that I think this episode was nothing short of brilliant and completely disagree with all the criticisms of Donna's characterisation and of the whole Abigail situation.

People say that the whole Abigail situation is completely at odds with this but it isn't. When Sam is on the balcony with Donna, he saysthat he's almost forgotten everythign that happened to him on the leaps, kind of a "reverse swiss-cheesing" making it clear that Sam's cannot hav an intact memory of his life outside of being a leaper while he's a leaper and visa versa. When Same met with Abigail, he'd swiss cheesed with her father and will in the space of a few days, feeling every single protective instinct and loving feeling that both of them had towards her. Plus she was the one who needed to be saved, so those feelings, coupled with the drive to "put right what once went wrong" meant that his feelings for Abigal are only natural. Remember that Al says at the end of the episode that he'll have no memory of either Abigail or Sammie Jo.

Ok now onto Donna herself, I have to say that she's about the strongest example of the old saying of "behind every great man there's a great woman" that I've ever seen.

This is a woman who has to choose between her husband knowing she's alive where he can stay completely faithful to her and having him unable to properly help others and having people die and have their lives ruined as a result.

The other option of course is to deliberately mislead her husband into thinking he's not married, that Donna isn't still with him, or even exists if the "swiss-cheesing" is bad enough and where he can potentially cheat on her with hundreds if not thousands of women unknowingly, so that countless lives and futures can be saved.

People criticise the grimace Donna made, but think about it- Donna knew what had to be done, but this wasthe man she loved, who she'd had to lead to believe for four years wasn't in his life, was never married to him. You can know that a decision is right, but when it harms the person you love, it doesn't change the guilt or the pain over havign had to make it.

I mean you listen to her wording and the tone of her voice. When Sam asked if he'd ever done anything to cheat on her, her response is that she never felt he'd done anything to betray their love. That doesn't mean she didn't feel like he'd cheated on her or acted unfaithfully, just that he did it unknowingly. Could you imagine what that must be like, knowing tht you have a spouse who loves you undeniably but because of their job they not only wind up forgetting you involuntarily, but are romantically involved with countless other people on a daily basis?

Then just as she has him again, he's forced to go back, to leave the very woman he loves knowing that if he doesn't, the friend who has saved him countless times, will himslf die. After losing someone for what seemed like would be an eternity only to have to lose them again, who wouldn't crack, be overwhelmed by their own emotions for a minute.

At the same time, Sam himself is torn, knowing what has to be done, but hating every minute of it, so much so that he pauses and when he does, Donna realises that to truly love Sam and truly let him be the man she fell in love with, she has to risk never seeing him again.

Then at the end of it all, she has to go back to ordering Al to keep her a secret, which can have only been even more painful at that point. Her only comfort being her knowledge of astronomy and using the distance of different stars as a way of bridging the time gap and feeling close ot the man she loves. I honestly believe that that last "I love you too Donna" was something she could hear deep down and came from the part of him which gave himself amnesia and leapt himself around for the greater good.

Even Al comments on what a remarkable woman she is. I honestly think they're one of film's greatest love stories.
 
He's referring to the second leaper in the Finale.
"She," not "he"

I figured everyone else knew that Staupau was the name of the crochety leaper from the Series Finale. since no one commented prior, I thought I was the only one who didn't "get" it.
 
Great episode. Too bad Sam's time home was short because he had to re-leap.

This proves that Sam could not be leaping himself as he needed to get back in the accelarator once again. If Al the bartender was correct than why did not Sam leap automatically when he realized he needed to be the leaper when Al his best friend was unconsious in the past! He did not and had to use his invention to do it.
 
This is probably one of my favorite episodes. As an Al fan, how COULDN'T it be?

There were very few tiffs I had with this episode, and most of them were brought up years ago, sadly! Like many people, I don't think that Donna's replacement actress was the best fit, and... well, I really didn't like her acting in general in this episode. And while the writing was really good, there was more that could have been done to make Donna a sympathetic character. Case in point:

Sam: How many times has Al saved my life?
Ziggy: 23.
Donna: I don't care!

Donna's reaction could have been sympathetic. I could have felt terribly sorry for her, as I know I should have, because four years without your husband, never knowing that if he'd ever come down was probably heartbreaking for her. But the timing was awful. If that "I don't care!" line had come anytime before Sam's line, I might have been able to sympathize with her.

But I wasn't. And that last scene with her and Al at the very end was not as touching as I think it was supposed to be because all I could think about was how Donna could hold a conversation with Al after what she said to Sam.

On some level, it also bothers me that Donna and Sam are together anyway. Putting aside my qualms with Donna as a character, I don't understand why she wouldn't have ended up with the guy she was supposed to marry before meeting Sam. But then again, I have qualms with Sam trying to break his own rules for himself, but not for other people.

Those quibbles aside, a really enjoyable episode. Like many others here, I really wish this would have been a two-parter; they could have fleshed out the story of the character Al leapt into (maybe even did something better than knocked-in-the-head-by-girlfriend's-vindictive-ex-fiancee) and we would have really gotten a chance to know the other characters that are part of the Quantum Leap Project.

Maybe I could have even liked Donna.
 
I've always wondered, when Sam and Al simo leap at the end of Shock Theater Sam leaps and when he arrives in 1945 he is still in the hospital gown he was in when in when he leaped! Does that mean when poor Sam Beeterman leapt back he was naked? LOL!

Also, I wish that Sam wasn't married since it's highly unlikely their marriage would have survived their time apart as well as the fact that Sam slept with all of these women and Donna was never turned off by it! I mean I always wonder what Donna thought when he had a child by another woman?
 
I've always wondered, when Sam and Al simo leap at the end of Shock Theater Sam leaps and when he arrives in 1945 he is still in the hospital gown he was in when in when he leaped! Does that mean when poor Sam Beeterman leapt back he was naked? LOL!

Also, I wish that Sam wasn't married since it's highly unlikely their marriage would have survived their time apart as well as the fact that Sam slept with all of these women and Donna was never turned off by it! I mean I always wonder what Donna thought when he had a child by another woman?


Shameless plug...

The whole Donna marriage thing bothers me too, so for a long time I avoided it in my fanfic. However, I did address it, and her relationship with Sammi Jo, in my stories 'Snake in the Grass' and 'ME, myself and Sam' over at
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/827199/Madders_Ahatter

They are nos 4 & 5 in a five story arc - but you could probably read them without the first three without losing too much in terms of that relationship.