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Old 09-20-2013, 05:54 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan View Post
A thought struck me. How exciting it would be if the devil's invasion had been performed the other way around.
While Sam appears to be acting on good intention, his thoughtful actions cause damage in other areas. Somewhat like Alia as Connie LaMatta who appeared to have Jimmy's interest at heart but was using him to drive a wedge between Connie and Frank.
Revelation: Sam is the devil in disguise trying to undo the real Sam's good deeds. Interference with Ziggy caused her to trace phony brainwaves that appeared to be Sam's.
While the real Sam is in a completely different leap.

There's probably flaws with this such as Sam's coming face to face with the devil being more meaningful but to quote Al (the real one, though I can't remember where he said it) "but it sounds good doesn't it?".
Hahaha! I actually played with this idea in my head for a very long time years ago. Sam appearing as the Devil himself. I could never, for the life of me, figure out how it all would've played out. It struck me as almost impossible. But Devil Sam appearing while the real one is on another completely different place and mission... wow, very plausible.

I saw this episode today again (for like the 50000 time). I just couldn't resist. How great it still is! Do not watch it at night. What a creepy music! Even at the ending with the Stevie reference, when it's supposed to be calming down a little, it's still very unsettling. Love how Stevie drives his car at the beginning, the way he breaks in reverse: Just the way Christine drove herself in the movie. Quite funny. And it made me remember how it disturbed me the first time I saw it because everyone seemed to hear Al. I remember thinking what a strange house that was, full of probably even demonic people who could hear Al. One thing I kept noticing today: Fake Al is always looking at Sam directly, no matter who Sam is with at the moment. Somethig the real Al never does. One part where this is clearly seen is when Sam has his encounter with Ben Masters at Mary's house. It's almost as if fake Al is studying him or something. We later learn that he's actually watching his reactions and enjoying them ("That was priceless!"). I kept thinking that for any first-time viewer this episode is definitely going to be soooo scary. It still has that spark, even after two long decades.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:39 PM   #52
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Hahaha! I actually played with this idea in my head for a very long time years ago. Sam appearing as the Devil himself. I could never, for the life of me, figure out how it all would've played out. It struck me as almost impossible. But Devil Sam appearing while the real one is on another completely different place and mission... wow, very plausible.

I saw this episode today again (for like the 50000 time). I just couldn't resist. How great it still is! Do not watch it at night. What a creepy music! Even at the ending with the Stevie reference, when it's supposed to be calming down a little, it's still very unsettling. Love how Stevie drives his car at the beginning, the way he breaks in reverse: Just the way Christine drove herself in the movie. Quite funny. And it made me remember how it disturbed me the first time I saw it because everyone seemed to hear Al. I remember thinking what a strange house that was, full of probably even demonic people who could hear Al. One thing I kept noticing today: Fake Al is always looking at Sam directly, no matter who Sam is with at the moment. Somethig the real Al never does. One part where this is clearly seen is when Sam has his encounter with Ben Masters at Mary's house. It's almost as if fake Al is studying him or something. We later learn that he's actually watching his reactions and enjoying them ("That was priceless!"). I kept thinking that for any first-time viewer this episode is definitely going to be soooo scary. It still has that spark, even after two long decades.
The Devil Sam idea is so rough in my head I barely tried to make sense of it for some reason. Perhaps because it is just a random thought but I can't find a way to bring it all together in a clear picture myself.

Hmm, honest;y I am unsure if I have ever watched the episode at night before though I have watched it just about 50,000 times as well. It's one of my favorites. I might have watched it right before bed once, for some reason the memory is nagging a the back of my mind the question is if it's real or not. And bedtime for me (as of recently not on a school night) is 2am haha.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:48 PM   #53
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On a sidenote, and to get back to the SK topic a bit, I LOVE everytime I see a QL actor in a Stephen King movie. Dean Stockwell is the most obvious one, he appears in "The Langoliers" from 1995, but for example: Alan Scarfe, the psychotic psychiatrist who appears in "Dreams" also appears in the mini-series "Kingdom Hospital" from 2004, for which SK wrote the screenplay. He plays a doctor there (this time surprisingly not a psychotic one, haha!, but sort of enigmatic). He got a bit puffy, hehe! Laura Harrington, Conny from "Jimmy" and "Deliver Us From Evil" appeared in the movie "Maximum Overdrive" (1986), which was written and directed by King himself. She's like the heroin there. The guy who plays Hank in "Runaway" also appeared in "The Stand" (1994), written by SK. Max Wright, who appeared in "Trilogy" (and who was famous for being Willy in "ALF"), also appears there. They even have a scene together!! They both play some evil doctors. Kevin Spirtas, who played the alcoholic fiance beater in "Camikazi Kid" appears in the movie "Apt Pupil" from 1998. He only has a quick role there as a paramedic and he's smiling for like all the 6 seconds he's in there. He's the only one with a very small role in a SK film.

Today I was watching "Creepshow 2" (1987) again and Frank Sotonoma Salsedo, the guy who played Kenu in "Freedom" also appears there and has an important (yet again indian) role on the first segment of that movie. I just love it. And this is to mention just a few.

I was a very devoted SK fan a few years ago so it was hard not to notice them all.

Edit: I was forgetting about Kelly Overbey, who was in "Promised Land" playing the girl in the bank who was very grouchy about everything and who always kept smoking. She also appears in "The Stand". There she plays a common girl who was later sent to Las Vegas to spy on the bad guy's plans. Maybe I'll keep remembering actors from time to time...
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:38 PM   #54
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Wow I had no idea so many Quantum Leap actors appeared in Stephan King films, though I have only seen so few of them in comparison to how many there are.
The Langoliers I have seen, the only one from your list I have and got a total kick in the butt out of the scene in which Dean's character, a mystery novelist, totally channels Sam while dishing out his theory of their unusual situation. XD
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:07 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan View Post
Wow I had no idea so many Quantum Leap actors appeared in Stephan King films, though I have only seen so few of them in comparison to how many there are.
The Langoliers I have seen, the only one from your list I have and got a total kick in the butt out of the scene in which Dean's character, a mystery novelist, totally channels Sam while dishing out his theory of their unusual situation. XD
Hahahahaha! Yeah, and then he even says: "Huh, you can't appear... at the Texas School Book Depository on November 22, 1963 and try to stop the Kennedy assassination..." Sounds like the ep. LHO? Haha! I wonder if King did this on purpose. He didn't write the screenplay there, but it's a line taken straight out of his novella.
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:27 AM   #56
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Hahahahaha! Yeah, and then he even says: "Huh, you can't appear... at the Texas School Book Depository on November 22, 1963 and try to stop the Kennedy assassination..." Sounds like the ep. LHO? Haha! I wonder if King did this on purpose. He didn't write the screenplay there, but it's a line taken straight out of his novella.
LOL,I have always wondered if Mr King ever saw an episode of QL. His last novel about Kennedy assassination was like revisiting a story from QL
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Old 12-10-2013, 06:39 PM   #57
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Just finished this episode since I felt like watching it today (sorry no screen capping this time, I must finish my final project for class today) and a thought came to me. What would have been totally epic would have been to have the devil at some point write 'Redrum' on the wall of Mary's house (since the devil was trying to convince Sam she was the killer) as one of the Stephan King references. I can just hear Stevie gasping "Whoa, what a cool idea!" XD
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:03 AM   #58
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Apologies for the double post.

Upon researching for a discussion of Satan in this episode elsewhere; the goat involved in Tully's death came to mind and thus so did bestie's certainty that it was symbolic of Satan though she's been unable to put her finger on how. So in that direction my research shifted and some very intriguing information came up which not only takes the symbolism of the goat in this episode in a surprising direction but further supports my head canon that this episode is connected to the Evil Leapers by in-story means (since writing wise clearly the evil leapers were a ratings ploy, so in no way were premeditated back in season three).

So I present to you folks, the Azazel Goat or more commonly known as 'The Scapegoat'.
A goat with the sins of every man in Israel confessed upon it's head and released into isolated wild or bluntly put, banished. It's a ritual of redemption that is recognized as The Day of Atonement.
There is both divine and wicked interpretation here which causes the symbolism to apply to both Satan and Sam.

The scapegoat was an offering of appeasement, of reconciliation. Isn't that essentially what Sam is? Banished from his own identity with the wrongs of the earth cast upon him?
Within this there is the connection to Satan as some saw the scapegoat as evil, the banishment of his influence and thus him.
As quoted here:
Quote:
Leviticus:16:21. "Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man." This is a symbol of the angel that is to take Satan away and isolate him from mankind.
Source: http://www.ucg.org/holidays-and-holy...and-atonement/

In addition Azazel whose name was used to refer to the scapegoat was described by The Book of Enoch to have corrupted man with deception and temptation and was imprisoned within a desert valley. For this reason the name is often thought of as referring to the location at which the goat was released. Oh wait a minute...isn't PQL isolated in the desert?!

Also my attention was unintentionally drawn to this passage:
Quote:
So would the crowd, called Babylonians or Alexandrians, pull the goat's hair to make it hasten forth, carrying the burden of sins away with it (Yoma vi. 4, 66b; "Epistle of Barnabas," vii.), and the arrival of the shattered animal at the bottom of the valley of the rock of Bet Ḥadudo, twelve miles away from the city, was signalized by the waving of shawls to the people of Jerusalem, who celebrated the event with boisterous hilarity and amid dancing on the hills (Yoma vi. 6, 8; Ta'an. iv. .
Source:http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2203-azazel

Sam had felt pressured by the committee to step prematurely into the accelerator, a metaphor of sorts to having his hair yanked to urge him hastily forward and recall in the pilot episode Al described the staff throwing a party to celebrate the success of the experiment involving drunkenness and the printing of x-rated photos. So I couldn't help but see this as an amusing find.

The scapegoat has a deep connection with the climax of this episode when Satan for an instant becomes the goat (among the characters he'd murdered, which again, goat carrying Satan's touch) while in Sam's stranglehold and then was banished along with the sins he's committed throughout the episode. Not by Sam, by God but that still fits. He ordered Lucifer to be imprisoned for 1000 years, isolated from mankind.

As a side note for Lightning McQueenie if he should peek here in regards to our conversation regarding the possible identity crisis of the Al Satan; the snake in this episode is also a connection to Satan as it was his guise when he introduced sin to mankind through Eve.

Now here is where the Evil Leapers fit into this; there were TWO goats victimized on The Day of Atonement.
Identical in every way with no "spot or blemish" upon them they were brought before God in offering.
One was the Scapegoat, a live offering, the offering of appeasement/reconciliation which as already discussed describes Sam.
The other was a sacrifice, a sin (blood) offering. It was slaughtered. Alia was not killed but was brought before Lothos and in my personal headcanon Satan as her offering and had even less freedom than Sam. She was tortured upon failure and had at one time performed murder assignments as suggested by the mention that they'd appealed for the home wrecking department and Alia having a line "I can't kill all those people again".
Looking At Sam in contrast the scapegoat being released into the wilderness represents the concept that Al the Bartender had introduced that Sam can take control of his leaping. Just as I'm sure that it wasn't impossible for that goat to find it's way back, it wasn't for Sam either. Alia not so much. She was a prisoner.

Alia actually could also be the scapegoat because she'd been innocent with sin cast upon her and Zoey had actually offered her in favor, to repay a debt. Appeasement if you will.

Tell me, am I crazy to be so analytical? I can't help but be a bit embarrassed by myself sometimes around here because I know Bellisario doesn't want the show nitpicked even in positive ways but that's just how I enjoy a franchise. If I don't pick it apart to death that's it not scoring too high on my interest scale.
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Old 11-25-2014, 03:37 AM   #59
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Tell me, am I crazy to be so analytical?
I don't think so. Analyzing stuff like this is what leads to unique and creative new ideas, which creates more interesting new fics, etc. In any fandom I've ever been involved in there are many long analytical discussions, on blogs like Tumblr and LJ people write long journal posts analyzing their favorite shows/books/movies, the characters, etc. Right now I'm following someone on Tumblr who has analyzed every single aspect of Orphan Black (fantastic show) and tied it into all kinds of other stuff.

The interpretation I bring to this episode is psychological rather than religious, and my interpretation of QL generally is less religious than how others think of it. I don't know what DPB's religious background is or how observant he is, but spirituality at least is something he explores in his shows, and not just QL. It's safe to say that he knows the Old and New Testament, and those stories could've been on his mind or even in the back of his mind when he came up with ideas for episodes like this one.
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Old 08-31-2015, 03:12 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan View Post
Apologies for the double post.

Upon researching for a discussion of Satan in this episode elsewhere; the goat involved in Tully's death came to mind and thus so did bestie's certainty that it was symbolic of Satan though she's been unable to put her finger on how. So in that direction my research shifted and some very intriguing information came up which not only takes the symbolism of the goat in this episode in a surprising direction but further supports my head canon that this episode is connected to the Evil Leapers by in-story means (since writing wise clearly the evil leapers were a ratings ploy, so in no way were premeditated back in season three).

So I present to you folks, the Azazel Goat or more commonly known as 'The Scapegoat'.
A goat with the sins of every man in Israel confessed upon it's head and released into isolated wild or bluntly put, banished. It's a ritual of redemption that is recognized as The Day of Atonement.
There is both divine and wicked interpretation here which causes the symbolism to apply to both Satan and Sam.

The scapegoat was an offering of appeasement, of reconciliation. Isn't that essentially what Sam is? Banished from his own identity with the wrongs of the earth cast upon him?
Within this there is the connection to Satan as some saw the scapegoat as evil, the banishment of his influence and thus him.
As quoted here:


Source: http://www.ucg.org/holidays-and-holy...and-atonement/

In addition Azazel whose name was used to refer to the scapegoat was described by The Book of Enoch to have corrupted man with deception and temptation and was imprisoned within a desert valley. For this reason the name is often thought of as referring to the location at which the goat was released. Oh wait a minute...isn't PQL isolated in the desert?!

Also my attention was unintentionally drawn to this passage:


Source:http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2203-azazel

Sam had felt pressured by the committee to step prematurely into the accelerator, a metaphor of sorts to having his hair yanked to urge him hastily forward and recall in the pilot episode Al described the staff throwing a party to celebrate the success of the experiment involving drunkenness and the printing of x-rated photos. So I couldn't help but see this as an amusing find.

The scapegoat has a deep connection with the climax of this episode when Satan for an instant becomes the goat (among the characters he'd murdered, which again, goat carrying Satan's touch) while in Sam's stranglehold and then was banished along with the sins he's committed throughout the episode. Not by Sam, by God but that still fits. He ordered Lucifer to be imprisoned for 1000 years, isolated from mankind.

As a side note for Lightning McQueenie if he should peek here in regards to our conversation regarding the possible identity crisis of the Al Satan; the snake in this episode is also a connection to Satan as it was his guise when he introduced sin to mankind through Eve.

Now here is where the Evil Leapers fit into this; there were TWO goats victimized on The Day of Atonement.
Identical in every way with no "spot or blemish" upon them they were brought before God in offering.
One was the Scapegoat, a live offering, the offering of appeasement/reconciliation which as already discussed describes Sam.
The other was a sacrifice, a sin (blood) offering. It was slaughtered. Alia was not killed but was brought before Lothos and in my personal headcanon Satan as her offering and had even less freedom than Sam. She was tortured upon failure and had at one time performed murder assignments as suggested by the mention that they'd appealed for the home wrecking department and Alia having a line "I can't kill all those people again".
Looking At Sam in contrast the scapegoat being released into the wilderness represents the concept that Al the Bartender had introduced that Sam can take control of his leaping. Just as I'm sure that it wasn't impossible for that goat to find it's way back, it wasn't for Sam either. Alia not so much. She was a prisoner.

Alia actually could also be the scapegoat because she'd been innocent with sin cast upon her and Zoey had actually offered her in favor, to repay a debt. Appeasement if you will.

Tell me, am I crazy to be so analytical? I can't help but be a bit embarrassed by myself sometimes around here because I know Bellisario doesn't want the show nitpicked even in positive ways but that's just how I enjoy a franchise. If I don't pick it apart to death that's it not scoring too high on my interest scale.
It's incredible the amount of religious research has been put into making this episode, thanks for bringing it to my attention SBF would it be ok if I quote you when we do the podcast for this episode?
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:37 AM   #61
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So was it all a dream? This episode doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If it was a dream, then he only told Stevie about the flying knives, which is a scene from Carrie. But that scene only happens in the movie and not in the novel.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:40 PM   #62
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Last night I watched some episodes of Quantum Leap on Hulu for the first time in a while and this was the last one I got in before going to sleep.

I'd like to explore the skull decoration shooting across the room and Mary's subsequent seizure, the turning point at which the episode abruptly gear switched from biblical subtext to more or less pseudoscience.

It bothers me how serious Sam is in his assessment.
"Psychokinesis is very real Al".

This coming from the renowned scientist who wasn't convinced that a police consultant had psychic abilities until it made an inarguable manifestation as an unprecedented use of his real name.

Correction: It's a very real stretch. Psychokinesis isn't proven to exist and albiet there is scientific theory connecting it to specifically temporal lobe epilepsy nonetheless, it's incredibly reaching according to this excerpt titled: Psychokenisis and Neurobiology from a book called Mysterious Minds: The Neurobiology of Psychics, Mediums and Other Extraordinary People by Stanley Krippner and Harris L. Freedman.

Actually, my research indicates that epilepsy/seizures is most commonly connected to precognitive dreams.
For example, on a particular forum, a woman claims that her epileptic daughter who suffers from petite mal seizures knew of her little brother by name before he was even conceived.

My hypothesis is that either:
1. Sam was so traumatized that he needed to grasp onto the one explanation behind an occurrence presented throughout the entire leap even if it was complete and utter nonsense.
2. The Devil planted that explanation into Sam's mind to distract the time traveler from his most prominent act.

I believe it was the Devil who manipulated the skull and caused the seizure.
It's perfectly complementary to his simultaneous exclamations of:
"She's possessed" and "She's a witch".

Possession and witchcraft were even associated in the Salem accusations.
Abigail Williams and her cohorts started the witch trials when all were seen having "fits" that were deemed non-medical.

In November of 1694, Abigail Williams' uncle, Reveran Samuel Parris wrote an essay titled 'Meditations for Peace' in which he states that not only does the devil afflict by means of the innocent but can also dilute “the senses of the afflicted that they strongly conceive their hurt is from such persons, when indeed it is not.”
This was an admission that basing an entire case on the accusations of one (there were multiple girls behind the accusations but Abigail being the initial afflicted was the only one put on the stand as a witness) was probably rash.

Source: Abigail Williams: The Mysterious Afflicted Girl

Throughout the entire episode, even before the revelation, the Devil's attempt to paint Mary as the killer is strongly present to the extent of being too obvious.
In the climax, Sam even reveals that he noticed more abnormalties with "Al" than he let on.

I'm guessing that he got desperate at this point because he wasn't convincing Sam and he clearly didn't get to know thy enemy if he thought psychokinesis and "A fit" this would do it.
The one thing he ever managed to convince Sam of is that Mary was in danger which was, in fact, the actual case. He just didn't imagine that the Devil himself was the danger.

If both men hadn't been so disoriented at the revelation, I'd have liked Sam to comment on Al's accusation towards the Devil for Beth and Dirk.
Ex.

"Who gave you the right to go bungling around in time putting right what I made wrong!?"
"Does that include Beth?"

I imagine him calling that one of his greatest masterpieces. Oh well.

On another note, at last, I understand the H.P Lovecraft reference. It took another reference in another series, I believe it was Supernatural, for it to become clear.
He was a horror, fantasy and science fiction novelist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie View Post
It's incredible the amount of religious research has been put into making this episode, thanks for bringing it to my attention SBF would it be ok if I quote you when we do the podcast for this episode?
****, it's too late to answer, yes absolutely isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markymarc8 View Post
So was it all a dream? This episode doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If it was a dream, then he only told Stevie about the flying knives, which is a scene from Carrie. But that scene only happens in the movie and not in the novel.
It's heavily implied to have not been a dream but that at the end God reversed time and the damage done.
Though I expect that had this experience been discussed later, Sam would have written it off as a dream.
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