The Donna Theory

I think Bellisario's best woman yet is Abby from NCIS. he did a good job there, except Scott is not in the show as her boyfriend. Perhaps that character freaks out Scott.

Side note: sorry to get so many people upset about the QL story idea that Sam was in a coma all the while we saw him "leap." I thought of it when he said, (yeah, I saw each ep at least 12 times & have nearly every line memorized)..."is this some sort of reverse reincarnation?" I know my idea is sort of disturbing. If I read something like that in the late 1990's, I would have written the person hate mail. Then again, we all are changing beings. What you might like today might be the worst thing in the world tomorrow.

Thanks McDuck. I miss Joe so much. He was my yin and I was his yang. Sort of like Sam & Al too. I was more like Sam he was more like Al, except were of opposite sexes. And I am completely straight so we both were not skirt chasers, only Joe. He was also a complete gentleman who knew the value of family and friends.
 
Side note: sorry to get so many people upset about the QL story idea that Sam was in a coma all the while we saw him "leap." I thought of it when he said, (yeah, I saw each ep at least 12 times & have nearly every line memorized)..."is this some sort of reverse reincarnation?" I know my idea is sort of disturbing. If I read something like that in the late 1990's, I would have written the person hate mail. Then again, we all are changing beings. What you might like today might be the worst thing in the world tomorrow.
Laestrella, never apologize for a plot idea you have. Just because some people don't like it doesn't make it wrong or something you should be sorry for. I say write it. Frankly, your idea sounds interesting to me.

If there's one thing I've learned from the writing I've done is that you can't write for the people who are going to read. No matter what you write somoene's going to love it and someone is going to hate it. I know when I write, I write for me - what do I want to see. When I get positive feedback from someone telling me that they've enjoyed what I've written, yay for me but if someone doesn't like it - oh well, you can't make someone like something if it's not to their taste.
 
bluedana said:
I think we agree on this point, Sam Beckett Fan. I've seen comments that Sam was promiscuous, and slept around a lot, especially in Seasons 4 and 5, and I don't think that's the case. He sure kissed a lot of women. As for Nicole - the first thing Al says when he sees Sam the morning after is that Sam has that "the earth moved last night" look on his face. And he does. And Sam argues that Nicole was "with" him, not Ray. I think Nicole got lucky.

I can buy the Abigail situation more than I can the Tamlyn one, considering the, erm, circumstances of the Abigail leap (I love that line where Sam asks Al, stuttering, if Al knows "who" he leaped into - and Al for once doesn't get the double entendre) and as jmoniz pointed out above, the leap in two weeks ahead of the task is kind of contrived.

I have to admit I haven't watched any other Bellisario productions, except to drool over Mark Harmon occasionally - are there women in that show, too? - so I couldn't make a comparison of his female characters.

Personally, in reponse to the line I underlined, I feel the opposite because Tamlyn was able to see Sam, Abigale was not. So I can see Sam finding it special that someone can see him.

Laestrella, never apologize for a plot idea you have. Just because some people don't like it doesn't make it wrong or something you should be sorry for. I say write it. Frankly, your idea sounds interesting to me.

If there's one thing I've learned from the writing I've done is that you can't write for the people who are going to read. No matter what you write somoene's going to love it and someone is going to hate it. I know when I write, I write for me - what do I want to see. When I get positive feedback from someone telling me that they've enjoyed what I've written, yay for me but if someone doesn't like it - oh well, you can't make someone like something if it's not to their taste.

I agree, I may not have liked it but I was in no way indicating that it was a bad idea and that you should not write it. It's your material so it's what you think that matters.
 
Actually, the point I think we agree on is this:
Sam has his reasons for sleeping with the women that he did, except Abigale, there was no real good excuse for that except maybe that he was plauged by Will's mind and love for her. and then it leaked into Sam himself. but other than that
We diverge with respect to the relative value of Tamlyn and Abigail, and that's fine.
 
I was not referring to anything you agreed with, I was saying what I agree with. Which I agree that its fine if you think Abigale was reasonable. I do not but everyone is entitled to their opinions and I respect that you feel opposite me.
 
jmoniz said:
Laestrella, never apologize for a plot idea you have. Just because some people don't like it doesn't make it wrong or something you should be sorry for. I say write it. Frankly, your idea sounds interesting to me.

If there's one thing I've learned from the writing I've done is that you can't write for the people who are going to read. No matter what you write somoene's going to love it and someone is going to hate it. I know when I write, I write for me - what do I want to see. When I get positive feedback from someone telling me that they've enjoyed what I've written, yay for me but if someone doesn't like it - oh well, you can't make someone like something if it's not to their taste.

I agree with that entirely, Julia. Particularly in the case of fanfic, where you're writing the story because you love the characters, and you're not getting paid, you should write to make yourself happy -- to produce the story YOU would like to see. (I think we're each our own best audience, as well as our own worst critic.)

If it's a premise that doesn't fly with most people, so be it. A lot of interesting art has come about because someone took an existing idea and put a new spin on it.
 
Donna & Fanfic

This is gonna be long...sorry (and putting * between paragraphs since something is going on with the formatting...it isn't accepting double spacing!)
* First off, Donna... I liked the first Donna, didn't like the second one (personal choice)...I don't have a problem with Donna herself...I could see how a woman that understands Sam's rather unique view of the world would appeal to him and he sees her as beautiful in all ways (not just the physical.) I can understand the reason they didn't get married and then they did. I can even understand that at the four year mark of leaping (LB), Donna would say everything she said to Sam.
* I never saw Sam as promiscuous. Indeed, Sam doesn't usually hop in bed with just anyone. I think his counsel to Kevin in Another Mother and his concern during Honeymoon Express both point to a definite moral code. Not that I don't think he doesn't have passions (One Strobe Over the Line...whoa.) And it is possible that how the leapee is magnafluxing sometimes plays a role (although I don't buy Will's undying love for Abigail. From that standpoint, it is possible that their are potentially multiple soulmates for us out there...it's just that we're lucky if we only meet one. That Sam might meet 2...not outside of the realm of possibilities.
* HOWEVER...promiscuous or not...if Sam is married, then even ONE relationship outside of that marriage is adultery. The fact that he doesn't remember Donna (whether or not it's because she won't let Al tell him or that Al "spurs"; him on...whatever) is not justification for that adultery. OK...I accept that this is my viewpoint (and others may disagree) but marriage is a sacred trust. It trancends time, space, and whether or not situations conspire against it.
* Thus...(and I agree with BlueDana about both Maggie and Nicole)...Sam has had at LEAST 5 completions of the act...in addition to the multiple times he would have completed it IF he hadn't leapt (Play it Again, Honeymoon Express, etc.)
* And yes...all the time he had any relationships was after we knew Donna existed...Star-crossed was the 2nd episode. We just didn't know for sure if he married her until the LB. BUT the really hot and heavy ones (Tamlyn, Abigal) were AFTER LB.
* So...back to Donna. I've pointed out what I accept. What I have a very hard time believeing is that after LB, she would continue to wait her entire lifetime away without some true glimmer of hope. Beth only accepted and waited for Al after 'a miracle happened' and she was visited by Sam (got to admit...if Sam showed up as Sam in my living room...I'd sort of see that as a miracle too...) She had something to believe in. What does Donna have?

* And whether or not Sam fixed Donna in SC; the committment issue when Donna was 20...she STILL lived 10 years (aged 10-20) where she basically saw herself as abandoned. That's got to have lasting psyche scars that Sam's leaving her multiple times has GOT to bring to the fore eventually. Add to that...she does have to face after the LB that Sam has gotten a bit more intense and that intensity does in one case led to a child...
* So, after Leap Back...if Donna sticks around for forever and a day...
* 1. Sam continues to be a seriel adulterer (whether or not he'd choose to do that if he KNEW about Donna...that's still the reality)
* 2. Donna comes off as a weak martyr (I doubt she would have appealed to Sam in that fashion) instead of the strong, intelligent woman she was portrayed in Star-crossed and even somewhat in the LB except for that bit when he leaves her again. Waiting would eventually turn her into someone that when Sam returns to her...she's wouldn't be what he left. People change...including Donna and Sam.
* 3. Donna is a woman. I know there are some who will put this one off as sex just isn't that important...but come on...in the series, Dr. Sam Beckett NEVER returned home. You really think she eventually died her own natural death without ever being with a man again? Donna wasn't a nun, even if she went to a Catholic school. I don't think she'd be promiscuous either, but if the right man came along...she MIGHT get weak. Happens ALL the time.
* 4. Going to the Virtual Seasons...Sam has returned again and again...and he leaves again and again. Getting back to the psyche and fear of abandonment...hmmmm...either the fear wasn't really THAT bad or Donna's got to be a mess after 12 years of leaping.
* Don't get me wrong...I can accept Donna as the true love of Sam's life. I can also accept that sometimes true love doesn't work out the way we want it to. And in a time-travel scenario, everything somewhat becomes a variable...six degrees of separation is a reality!
* NOW...onto the fanfic...
* As someone who seems to strike a cord at times (I've had more then my share of 'stirring it up'...but...geez!...this is fiction!) I would definitely say...go with writing something you enjoy. NOW...saying that...don't expect people to read and enjoy it (and why would you choose to put it out there if you didn't want it to be read) if it's not well thought out (plot line, flow, and characterization wise). Additionally, please at least attempt to fix the spelling and grammatical errors. I'm not saying my stuff has been perfect in that realm...even after being beta'd...but those errors DO cause the reader to have to stop in their acceptance of the story to at least acknowledge the error. It can turn a really good read into something that turns people off.
* As to readers...please...feedback is important to an author. BUT...just because the author wrote something you didn't like doesn't mean the story is a bad one. Just like a painting you see in a gallery...you may never want the piece in your home (for a variety of reasons) but that doesn't mean you can't appreciate the piece, even if it's just to acknowledge the artists unique POV. So...please give feedback and keep in mind that a well thought out critque is as valuable as gold.
* FINALLY...I want to say that I do appreciate you all and your own unique POV's. The fact that we can have intelligent discussions without people getting bent out of shape is something to be treasured.
 
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What the heck....

My post WASN'T one big jumble...But it's not taking the extra returns to separate the paragraphs... What's going on? I'll try to edit it again...
 
Its ok Helen I was able to read it fine. :)
and I agree with a lot of points including that his absence of memory of Donna does not justify his one night stand with Abigale. ok, so I agree with basically all your points. :)
 
Thanks Julia & Carol. I often lack any sort of confidence. However, I am so egotistical like Ziggy. I think I am the best at everything. It's just my nature...by the way, Julia, love the stories and Carol, 7 years ago when I first went online & when you were on the QLIP & one of Trudy's original sites, I harrassed you big time about what the heck you meant in the novel you published. Thank you for your patience. Little by little, I am growing up. Soon I will be enough to have a tougher skin (and not be so emotional about everything) & have confidence...I'm nearly 26 & realize I'm still growing.
 
laestrella said:
Thanks Julia & Carol. I often lack any sort of confidence. However, I am so egotistical like Ziggy. I think I am the best at everything. It's just my nature...by the way, Julia, love the stories and Carol, 7 years ago when I first went online & when you were on the QLIP & one of Trudy's original sites, I harrassed you big time about what the heck you meant in the novel you published. Thank you for your patience. Little by little, I am growing up. Soon I will be enough to have a tougher skin (and not be so emotional about everything) & have confidence...I'm nearly 26 & realize I'm still growing.

You are not alone. I think I mentioned somewhere before, that I aid some pretty damn nasty things about Obessions just from the idea of it, I had not even read it yet. It took for my best friend to read it and tell me it was good to get mt to read it myself. This is actually quite common. This has happened with a few other of the novels, and even for the show itself.

I remember I had her over at my house once, and it was after ten, and we were watching Numbers because its one of her favs. I was online to ask afriend about the main actor from Numbers and our guy friend signed on, so Kristen told me to ask him to please bring over Quantum Leap for a get together they were having like the next day or something. I did so, and as I did I thought "What the heck is Quantum Leap?"
I did not care though, I knew it had something to do with a scientist because kristen had once given me like a one sentence description, but I did not get it, and it sounded kinda boring like a Twilight Zone kinda thing. But when she finally got me to watch I was hooked.

I won't do a lot of stuff until I am persuaded to, so I can be a little judgementle. I am learning to change some of my ways too. So I am definatly growing up as well.
 
asearcher, to your whole post, I say, Right on! I think your analysis of Donna and Sam's relationship is logical and reasonable.

and this:
* NOW...onto the fanfic...
* As someone who seems to strike a cord at times (I've had more then my share of 'stirring it up'...but...geez!...this is fiction!) I would definitely say...go with writing something you enjoy. NOW...saying that...don't expect people to read and enjoy it (and why would you choose to put it out there if you didn't want it to be read) if it's not well thought out (plot line, flow, and characterization wise). Additionally, please at least attempt to fix the spelling and grammatical errors. I'm not saying my stuff has been perfect in that realm...even after being beta'd...but those errors DO cause the reader to have to stop in their acceptance of the story to at least acknowledge the error. It can turn a really good read into something that turns people off.
* As to readers...please...feedback is important to an author. BUT...just because the author wrote something you didn't like doesn't mean the story is a bad one. Just like a painting you see in a gallery...you may never want the piece in your home (for a variety of reasons) but that doesn't mean you can't appreciate the piece, even if it's just to acknowledge the artists unique POV. So...please give feedback and keep in mind that a well thought out critque is as valuable as gold.

--absolutely. I read a lot of fan fiction and the only thing that turns me off quicker than a page full of typos is an inadequately thought out story. If the writing is good and tight, though, I'll read it, even if I in no way agree with the premise. For example, I detest "slash" fanfic (which, for the uninitiated, means fiction with a same-sex romantic pairing where the characters have no indication in the series of a same-sex preference - the archetype is Star Trek's Kirk and Spock). Avoided it like the plague just on principle. Lately, I've found a couple of authors whose writing is amazing, the words just sing off the page. And . . . it's slash. I could go off on them and say it stinks because I don't agree with the premise, or I could acknowledge the quality of the writing and the sense of the story in its (alternate) universe. I've chosen the latter.

All that to say, laestrella, if you have a different spin on Sam, Al, Donna, and the QL universe, I'll read it - so long as it's well written. It doesn't have to follow the formula, but it has to make sense. All it has to be is what my professor used to call "a good story, told well."
 
laestrella said:
Thanks Julia & Carol. I often lack any sort of confidence. However, I am so egotistical like Ziggy. I think I am the best at everything. It's just my nature...by the way, Julia, love the stories and Carol, 7 years ago when I first went online & when you were on the QLIP & one of Trudy's original sites, I harrassed you big time about what the heck you meant in the novel you published. Thank you for your patience. Little by little, I am growing up. Soon I will be enough to have a tougher skin (and not be so emotional about everything) & have confidence...I'm nearly 26 & realize I'm still growing.

Ummm...I'm confused. I don't know what the QLIP is, and...Trudy? Don't know her or her site(s). You may have posted thoughts at those places, but I don't think I read 'em.

I'm willing to chat about the novels now, though. As for "what I meant" -- heck, half the time I don't know what I meant! :) My friend Candy (a fellow fanfic writer) always says, there's a movie playing in our heads, and we just write it down.

At any rate, I don't ever mind constructive criticism about the stories, or even when people just say "I didn't like it." It's when people decide to hide behind the anonymity of the Internet and turn on the blowtorches that I get really bugged. I figure, if you're going to tear somebody a new one, at least have the guts to identify yourself, and do something more adult than rant and rave and accuse me of crimes against nature. As we've been saying here, we've each got our own perspectives on the story and characters (even, eek, slash, which I don't like either). I think we're each entitled to those viewpoints, but I DON'T think it entitles us to indulge in childish freakouts directed at the author if his/her perspective differs from our own.
 
Carol. First of All this is trudy's site:
http://www.angelfire.com/stars/scottbakula/main2.html

its called Completely Scott.

I would also like to say that I agree with your friend totally. When I come up with a story I see it as movie in my head before I write it. That's what makes it sound cool enough to write :)

carold said:
but I DON'T think it entitles us to indulge in childish freakouts directed at the author if his/her perspective differs from our own.

As for this comment, this is bascially what I got back at that Full HOuse board that treated me like crap. Some of you know about this and some of you don't. I used to speak of it more back at the EZboard when I first joined so mostly the people that have been here at least as long as that would know, I.E: McDuck, QLdamsel, Al's Handlink...and more.

in short though, after a very frightening incident involving my username, I re posted a story I had done at the boards old location (they had recently moved at the time). a couple of mods harshly critized it and then it started expanding to target all of my work. They started teasing me and treating me like crap and so I left and didnt join another message board until I finally decided to join here.

my point being, no one deserves that. We all have our own unique ideas and styles of writing and others should respect that!
 
Thanks for the link, Sam Beckett Fan. Nope, I'd never seen that site before.

I'm so sorry you went through that horrible experience with your stories. Really, I think anybody who bothers to write a story because of their love for the story and characters, deserves respect for that -- and for being bold enough to post it online, where I think we've all noticed that there's a remarkable lack of respect for others. The anonymity of the Internet really seems to bring out the worst in people.

I think it's one thing if you're producing a story that someone's going to PAY for (meaning, to be published as a book, or in a magazine). I think the standards need to be a little higher there. (I paid something like $25 for the biography of one of the Star Trek actors, and was appalled at the number of misspellings and typos.) But if you're just writing a story because you love certain characters...ah, what the heck. :) Like I've said elsewhere, I'm a stickler for proper spelling, grammar and punctuation, and I figure everybody ought to take the time to run Spell Check. But even if a story is the worst piece of you-know-what imaginable, I don't think that's a reason to turn the blowtorches on the author.
 
At any rate, I don't ever mind constructive criticism about the stories, or even when people just say "I didn't like it." It's when people decide to hide behind the anonymity of the Internet and turn on the blowtorches that I get really bugged.
I'll agree that I prefer to get constructive criticisms but as far as the simple "I didn't like it" or even "That was great", I'm not overly fond of them. It really gives me no idea of what it was that was disliked or what it was that liked and doesn't really act as a great help in my future writing.

I'd rather have someone anonymously lambaste me and take the story apart piece by piece but if they can explain why they feel the way they feel that's perfectly fine with me. No matter how inflamatory a review may be or whether or not a name is given, as long as the person can support what they're saying, that's fine with me. Ultimately, whether or not I have someone's actual name or an assumed name I generally don't know who they are and if it's someone I do know who's only comfortable providing the feedback without me knowing who it is...well, at least they have the courage to actually say something to me.
 
I can't agree with you there, Julia. It's true, most of the vicious people (I'm speaking of the ones who attacked me on Amazon) had explanations for why they didn't like the book(s), but the way they went about it was -- I really feel -- uncalled for. It's not like I set out to p*** people off by writing the stories the way I did, or to steal their money. And it's certainly not my fault the publisher advertised "Mirror's Edge" the way they did. I logged onto those pages hoping to (as you say) get suggestions that would help in future writing, and instead ended up crimson in the face, hurt and crying because people feel free to hide behind their anonymity and be needlessly nasty. If you're OK with being "lambasted," as you said, you must have a way thicker skin than I do.
 
commentary

Carol, maybe got you confused with someone else. Sorry if I did. Also, thanks for your ideas. I love stories and perhaps that is why it is so hard for me to delinate down the story that is playing "like movie in my head". Thanks for understanding. Many times people do not understand me completely. I try not to shut out or mask anything in regards to who I am. That is why I kept the quote from the best singer on earth's song "true colors" (bow to Cyndi Lauper.)
 
If you're OK with being "lambasted," as you said, you must have a way thicker skin than I do.
I don't know, maybe I do. I just made up my mind long ago that not everyone was going to like me or what I do and some people would be mean about communicating the message. Their delivery method might not be the greatest but that doesn't invalidate the way they feel and their freedom to express that. I can't change how other people feel and how they act - I can only change myself and how I handle the criticism of otehrs. That leaves me the choice of either taking someone's negative feedback (no matter how they choose to give it) to heart and letting it do nothing more than upset me or I can filter through the rudeness of the way it's presented and look for the kernal of worth in it that can help me to be a better writer.

I have been lambasted before by an anonymous person - recently in fact. The only reason why I removed the feedback from showing publicly was because the person chose to use words that shouldn't be used in public. Otherwise I would have let it remain because it was a person's honest opinion regarding my work. After picking through their rather "blue" language I took what was left and used it as a challenge to change and add something to the story - something I was later told by others was an effective change for the story. If that anonymous person hadn't decided to take it upon themselves to drag me across the coals I wouldn't have done that. Would the story in the end have suffered for it? That I can't answer since it's the path I didn't go down. I do know that I was complimented for what I did.
 
CarolD said:
Thanks for the link, Sam Beckett Fan. Nope, I'd never seen that site before.

I'm so sorry you went through that horrible experience with your stories. Really, I think anybody who bothers to write a story because of their love for the story and characters, deserves respect for that -- and for being bold enough to post it online, where I think we've all noticed that there's a remarkable lack of respect for others. The anonymity of the Internet really seems to bring out the worst in people.

I think it's one thing if you're producing a story that someone's going to PAY for (meaning, to be published as a book, or in a magazine). I think the standards need to be a little higher there. (I paid something like $25 for the biography of one of the Star Trek actors, and was appalled at the number of misspellings and typos.) But if you're just writing a story because you love certain characters...ah, what the heck. :) Like I've said elsewhere, I'm a stickler for proper spelling, grammar and punctuation, and I figure everybody ought to take the time to run Spell Check. But even if a story is the worst piece of you-know-what imaginable, I don't think that's a reason to turn the blowtorches on the author.

Thanx Carol. cuz I am telling you these vicious people attacked my stories for the stupidest reasons, one of them was just because I wrote them.

I am very sorry for the attacks you have gotten on your books and for being one of them, I mean no harm when I insult a story I just don't always agree with the ideas, I never in anyway critize anyone's writing style not even Ashley McConnal whom I feel the axact oppsite about. I like her ideas its just her writing style I am not fond of.

I admit I can be pretty harsh when I describe how I disagree with a writer's idea, like I was with your Obessions, but I mean no harm towards the writer. I respect that everyone has their view of the show I just don't always agree with them, like some of the concepts that Kristen(my best friend) has described to me from the Virtual seasons. (cuz thats what she does, she has been reading them and when something is good or confusing or weird she'll describe it to me on AIM).

So it's just wrong and evil for people to be cruel to others about their stories just because they don't like it. They don't have to like it, but come on people, we don't need to hear your crap, it does us no good and for sensitive authors like me, it hurts thier feelings. Why can't people like that just keep thier crap to themselves. :cry