516 Revenge <AKA Evil Leaper III>

[Sam Beckett Fan]

Ugh, had about a half way done review going and my Macbook air froze on me so I lost the whole thing. It p***** me off but I'm ready to try this again.

This is my least favorite of the evil leaper trilogy; adding Zoey as a leaper took it too far in my opinion. Up until Sam pulls a screaming Alia out of what they called "The Box" is watchable but then with all these leapers and holograms competing with each other it essentially became a leaper Hunger Games. It took away from the QL atmosphere in my opinion.

Still there are aspects if this episode which were interesting. Once again we learn slightly more about the evil project and even meet a new character. The reveal that Zoey was intended to be their leaper but she'd appealed to them to send Alia to repay a favor was interesting but they should have elaborated. To only tell half that story made little sense like a professor assigning the second half of the book to read but not the first.

The notion to use hypnotism to cloak Alia from Lothos was very clever and opens up the possibility that for Sam to find a way to better control it so that he may intentionally tap into a leapee's mind. I however feel that when Al put the idea out there the reference he should have used is Dreams not Shock Theater. The leap in which Sam had actually literally been put into hypnosis and nearly falling victim to that sociopath psychiatrist. During that scene Al had mentioned barely being able to establish a lock on him. So in that way that could be a superior function that the evil project did not manage.

Lightning McQueenie's take that it had also effected Alia's leapee thus causing her condition in the waiting room is quite intelligent.
That indeed was one of the highlights of the episode, it absolutely amuses me how when Liz snaps at Al that "The waiting room doesn't tell me chip" he gets this priceless 'ok backing off' expression.
As for why he did not show sympathy for Angel, he was probably ignorant. He clearly saw her condition as a typical effect of leaping. He says as much when he tells Liz that "It's a bi-product of how you here."
Not to mention his sympathies seem to have to either be earned or hit home such as with Jimmy or Running for Honor.

This and the fact that she'd sent a bullet into her abusive husband thus ending up in the prison establishes Liz as one badass b****. Which brings me to Lightning McQueenie's other question regarding a planned rape. There is no way I'd buy the actual Meyers trying that on the actual Liz, she'd probably castrate him. As for Zoe in the role, though I never got the impression that she'd planned to rape Liz, yeah she'd knowingly rape Sam. She made a display of being attracted to him in Deliver Us... as no exception to her having a level of lecherous-ness which rivals Al's.
The first thing she said when she saw him was:
"Who is this tasty morsel?"

Returning to the hypnotism, lets look at the scene I mentioned as the last which is watchable for me, Alia in "The Box". This came across to me as a piece of Alia had come through with Angel's claustrophobia. Remember she'd been tortured after failing to kill Sam in Deliver Us.... Being chained to that wall may have triggered that memory. She'd been sobbing:
"I didn't do it." a statement that wasn't clear to Sam and Al.
Al even said at the beginning that at best she'd only absorbed a little bit of Angel's memory.
So that was pretty interesting and being a sucker for mush I liked seeing Sam comforting her when he'd gotten her out of those chains.

Also I noticed a line that may or may not be an error.
Somewhere near the beginning Zoey demands of Thames as a response to not being able to find Alia to talk to her leapee in their version of a waiting room called the Holding Chamber. To which Thames' response was:
"There's no one there."
I assume he simply wasn't counting Meyers but I feel the line still should have been more clear about that such as:
"Meyers is the only one there." or
"There's no one there but Meyers."

Then I've already discussed with Lightning McQueenie in his Interesting observations thread about the whole controversy over the shoot off at the end and theories of how a bullet had grazed the blue leap light over Alia and then produced a disoriented but psychically unharmed Angel. A similar event occurred with Zoey. The logic behind that is not clear but I wish there had been more exploring of it because I need it for the climax of my fanfic.

Over all about 3/5 stars.

[Lightning McQueenie]

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

Ugh, had about a half way done review going and my Macbook air froze on me so I lost the whole thing. It p***** me off but I'm ready to try this again.

I'm glad you did though, gives us so much to talk about!

This is my least favorite of the evil leaper trilogy; adding Zoey as a leaper took it too far in my opinion. Up until Sam pulls a screaming Alia out of what they called "The Box" is watchable but then with all these leapers and holograms competing with each other it essentially became a leaper Hunger Games. It took away from the QL atmosphere in my opinion.

I actually found it really interesting and entertaining, but yes you are right, not really QL-like...

Still there are aspects if this episode which were interesting. Once again we learn slightly more about the evil project and even meet a new character. The reveal that Zoey was intended to be their leaper but she'd appealed to them to send Alia to repay a favor was interesting but they should have elaborated. To only tell half that story made little sense like a professor assigning the second half of the book to read but not the first.

I get the feeling that the Evil Project would have been elaborated on in Season 6 had the show not been cancelled, so I can forgive them for that. But yes, I too would have loved this to be elaborated on.

The notion to use hypnotism to cloak Alia from Lothos was very clever and opens up the possibility that for Sam to find a way to better control it so that he may intentionally tap into a leapee's mind. I however feel that when Al put the idea out there the reference he should have used is Dreams not Shock Theater. The leap in which Sam had actually literally been put into hypnosis and nearly falling victim to that sociopath psychiatrist. During that scene Al had mentioned barely being able to establish a lock on him. So in that way that could be a superior function that the evil project did not manage.

100% agreed, they should have talked about the "Dreams" leap, but Shock Theatre fits too, as by Sam changing personas then, Al was losing the lock too, and by hypnotising Alia they were essentially changing her persona...

Lightning McQueenie's take that it had also effected Alia's leapee thus causing her condition in the waiting room is quite intelligent.
That indeed was one of the highlights of the episode, it absolutely amuses me how when Liz snaps at Al that "The waiting room doesn't tell me chip" he gets this priceless 'ok backing off' expression.
As for why he did not show sympathy for Angel, he was probably ignorant. He clearly saw her condition as a typical effect of leaping. He says as much when he tells Liz that "It's a bi-product of how you here."
Not to mention his sympathies seem to have to either be earned or hit home such as with Jimmy or Running for Honor.

Mind-merging is definitely a two-way street, as we saw in LHO when Oswald in the Waiting Room was able to recite String Theory, and later even took on Sam's persona.

This actually got me thinking - Angel in the Waiting Room should really have taken on Alia's persona. In fact, maybe Al could have even hypnotised her to make the memory transition easier on her. Doing this, he could have even had Angel (as Alia) tell him more about the Evil Project, including any weaknesses...

This and the fact that she'd sent a bullet into her abusive husband thus ending up in the prison establishes Liz as one badass b****. Which brings me to Lightning McQueenie's other question regarding a planned rape. There is no way I'd buy the actual Meyers trying that on the actual Liz, she'd probably castrate him. As for Zoe in the role, though I never got the impression that she'd planned to rape Liz, yeah she'd knowingly rape Sam. She made a display of being attracted to him in Deliver Us... as no exception to her having a level of lecherous-ness which rivals Al's.
The first thing she said when she saw him was:
"Who is this tasty morsel?"

But that's the thing though, "Myers" wasn't actually Myers at the time, and Zoe wouldn't have known (or cared) about how "Liz" would react.

In any other situation, I agree, Zoe would drug and rape Sam in a heartbeat, but in this case, she was so obsessed with revenge I'm sure she'd give her loins a rest for a leap :P

Returning to the hypnotism, lets look at the scene I mentioned as the last which is watchable for me, Alia in "The Box". This came across to me as a piece of Alia had come through with Angel's claustrophobia. Remember she'd been tortured after failing to kill Sam in Deliver Us.... Being chained to that wall may have triggered that memory. She'd been sobbing:
"I didn't do it." a statement that wasn't clear to Sam and Al.
Al even said at the beginning that at best she'd only absorbed a little bit of Angel's memory.
So that was pretty interesting and being a sucker for mush I liked seeing Sam comforting her when he'd gotten her out of those chains.

See I always thought that it was just Angel's claustrophobia coming through, but you have a point, part of Alia may have broken through. This may even explain why Lothos was able to get a lock on Alia in the box. It's just lucky that Vivian had already moved her.

As for the "I didn't do it" line, I just assumed that it was Angel coming through, saying that she didn't kill Carol. It would make sense, because later she tells Sam that Carol had said something to Liz earlier that night. This is what prompted Al to interrogate Liz in the Waiting Room...

Speaking of Vivian though, I loved her character, and her line "If I'm about to step into the Twilight Zone, I need a damn minute!" - it's especially funny if you realise that Carolyn Seymour (Zoe) was IN the Twilight Zone :P

Also I noticed a line that may or may not be an error.
Somewhere near the beginning Zoey demands of Thames as a response to not being able to find Alia to talk to her leapee in their version of a waiting room called the Holding Chamber. To which Thames' response was:
"There's no one there."
I assume he simply wasn't counting Meyers but I feel the line still should have been more clear about that such as:
"Meyers is the only one there." or
"There's no one there but Meyers."

I noticed this as well. Either Thames omitted Myers in the Holding Chamber because it was irrelevant, or they had checked before Zoe leapt and found it empty, and Zoe had just forgotten due to the partial swiss-cheesing of her memory.

Then I've already discussed with Lightning McQueenie in his Interesting observations thread about the whole controversy over the shoot off at the end and theories of how a bullet had grazed the blue leap light over Alia and then produced a disoriented but psychically unharmed Angel. A similar event occurred with Zoey. The logic behind that is not clear but I wish there had been more exploring of it because I need it for the climax of my fanfic.

Over all about 3/5 stars.

Whatever your take on the shooting incidents is, by all means use it in your fanfic. There really is no right or wrong. My opinion is that the bullet intended for Alia missed them both - just being absorbed by or passing through the empty aura in that split second where they were being switched out, and that the bullet intended for Zoe did in fact hit her and wound her. I personally think that Thames initiated her leap out (he was frantically pressing buttons on the handlink) to try and get her medical attention back at the project (it was within 48 hours so she should have been able to be retrieved). The bullet must have gone with her, because it didn't appear that there was an exit wound, and when the real Myers had returned, completely unharmed, the bullet had disappeared.

I personally really enjoy this episode and there is a lot to talk about, and I would have liked to see more of the Evil project storyline in future episodes had there been a chance. Shame it never came to pass...

[blue enigma]

As others have mentioned I liked that this episode explored the idea that some leapees were better off in the waiting room than in their own lives. Definitely accurate.

Beyond that I thought the episode was a hot mess and the worst in the Evil Leaper trilogy. The Evil Leapers weren't my favorite part of QL anyway and ties with the celebrity leaps as being the most shameless grab for ratings (in my opinion) but I find 'Deliver Us from Evil' and "Return of the Evil Leaper" to be at least watchable and there are things I like about them. I can't bring myself to sit all the way through this one after the first time through.

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

Which brings me to Lightning McQueenie's other question regarding a planned rape. There is no way I'd buy the actual Meyers trying that on the actual Liz, she'd probably castrate him. As for Zoe in the role, though I never got the impression that she'd planned to rape Liz, yeah she'd knowingly rape Sam. She made a display of being attracted to him in Deliver Us... as no exception to her having a level of lecherous-ness which rivals Al's.
The first thing she said when she saw him was:
"Who is this tasty morsel?"

Rape is really about power though. Even though Liz was a strong person Meyers was still in a position of power over her as far as the prison structure and raping her was a reinforcement of that power. And she would no doubt be painfully aware of that. She might've tried to fight back but it likely would've gone very badly for her.

Zoey was lecherous and she objectified men and specifically Sam, but she would also certainly be capable of, and would enjoy brutalizing and humiliating Sam or whoever too. She would very much be into the power trip.

[Sam Beckett Fan]

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie

I get the feeling that the Evil Project would have been elaborated on in Season 6 had the show not been cancelled

That would have been excellent, perhaps even reveal what happened to Alia when she'd leaped out of the prison. Or return Zoey as the new evil leaper.

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie

As for the "I didn't do it" line, I just assumed that it was Angel coming through, saying that she didn't kill Carol. It would make sense, because later she tells Sam that Carol had said something to Liz earlier that night. This is what prompted Al to interrogate Liz in the Waiting Room..

True, this is something I as well have considered.

Originally Posted by Lighting McQueenie

Speaking of Vivian though, I loved her character, and her line "If I'm about to step into the Twilight Zone, I need a damn minute!" - it's especially funny if you realise that Carolyn Seymour (Zoe) was IN the Twilight Zone :P

That was such a great line, I did enjoy Vivian.
I did not realize Carolyn Seymour was in The Twilight Zone, I've actually never watched it.

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie

Whatever your take on the shooting incidents is, by all means use it in your fanfic. There really is no right or wrong. My opinion is that the bullet intended for Alia missed them both - just being absorbed by or passing through the empty aura in that split second where they were being switched out, and that the bullet intended for Zoe did in fact hit her and wound her. I personally think that Thames initiated her leap out (he was frantically pressing buttons on the handlink) to try and get her medical attention back at the project (it was within 48 hours so she should have been able to be retrieved). The bullet must have gone with her, because it didn't appear that there was an exit wound, and when the real Myers had returned, completely unharmed, the bullet had disappeared.

Actually I quite like this take, it makes perfect sense to me.
In my fanfic however it would have to work somewhere in between the outcomes of Alia and Zoey. That's all I shall reveal.

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie

Beyond that I thought the episode was a hot mess and the worst in the Evil Leaper trilogy. The Evil Leapers weren't my favorite part of QL anyway and ties with the celebrity leaps as being the most shameless grab for ratings (in my opinion) but I find 'Deliver Us from Evil' and "Return of the Evil Leaper" to be at least watchable and there are things I like about them. I can't bring myself to sit all the way through this one after the first time through.

Exactly how I felt.

[Lightning McQueenie]

Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan

That would have been excellent, perhaps even reveal what happened to Alia when she'd leaped out of the prison. Or return Zoey as the new evil leaper.

I have no doubt they'd have brought back Carolyn Seymour as Zoe any chance they could

That was such a great line, I did enjoy Vivian.
I did not realize Carolyn Seymour was in The Twilight Zone, I've actually never watched it.

Apparently in the episode, called "Ye Gods", Carolyn Seymour plays a Fury who has broken Cupid's heart... Sounds very twilighty :P

Actually I quite like this take, it makes perfect sense to me.
In my fanfic however it would have to work somewhere in between the outcomes of Alia and Zoey. That's all I shall reveal.

I look forward to it

Exactly how I felt.

I would LOVE to see a Quantum Leap version of the Hunger Games

[Lightning McQueenie]

I thought of something - in Return of the Evil Leaper, when they hear "Arnold" asking Al for help, Zoe asks Lothos who reveals it's Sam. That means Lothos must be able to scan people for leapers. In Revenge of the Evil Leaper, why didn't Zoe just tell Thames to have Lothos scan all the prisoners to find Sam and Alia?

[TheLeaper]

I don't understand how Thames thought Alia was still in the box when it was actually the officer. Why was he detecting her brainwaves in there? Also did they cut out a scene. Suddenly Al and Thames claim the electrical force field around the prison was preventing the evil project from locking on to Alia and Sam.

Also is this the closest date (1987) Sam has ever been to home (with the obvious exception of Leap Back)

[TheLeaper]

Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie

I thought of something - in Return of the Evil Leaper, when they hear "Arnold" asking Al for help, Zoe asks Lothos who reveals it's Sam. That means Lothos must be able to scan people for leapers. In Revenge of the Evil Leaper, why didn't Zoe just tell Thames to have Lothos scan all the prisoners to find Sam and Alia?

The end of the episode suggests the force field around the prison prevented that from happening.

[Lightning McQueenie]

Originally Posted by TheLeaper

I don't understand how Thames thought Alia was still in the box when it was actually the officer. Why was he detecting her brainwaves in there? Also did they cut out a scene. Suddenly Al and Thames claim the electrical force field around the prison was preventing the evil project from locking on to Alia and Sam.

Well we have to remember that when Sam and Alia leapt to the prison, they leapt into the box. After that they were sent to wait in the lobby at Myers' office, and then in the closet where they did the hypnosis to disguise Alia's brainwaves. Really, there were only three places where Alia's true brainwaves had been - the box, the lobby and the closet - so it makes sense that while Lothos is scanning from the brainwaves, that it might pick up some residual brainwaves from where Alia had been.

Also is this the closest date (1987) Sam has ever been to home (with the obvious exception of Leap Back)

Yes I believe so. Although in some of the novels I believe he leapt into the '90s.

Originally Posted by TheLeaper

The end of the episode suggests the force field around the prison prevented that from happening.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that, thank you

[TheLeaper]

I find it hilarious that the office actually waits for Sam to get info from Al at the end before putting him at the back of the vehicle at the end of the leap. For most of it, Sam isn't even saying much, just listening to Al.

[Lightning McQueenie]

It's amazing that I'm STILL finding something new every time I watch this episode.

This might have been obvious to others, but I guess I'm a bit slow on the uptake. Al says that after Fiddler gets out of gaol, she disappears without a trace. I didn't join the dots until this latest viewing, that Fiddler must have been murdered by Myers since she was the closest thing to a witness to Carol Bending's murder.

[Spartan83]

It was made immediately clear to the audience that Sam and Alia had leapt together and ended up in the Box, i find it unbelievable that to an evil A.I unit such as Lothos that they could not summise that Liz and Angel were in fact Sam and Alia.

I mean look at the facts, 2 prisoners who were inseperable with somewhat questionable memory, 2 + 2 should have equalled 4 nearly instantly from when Zoey leapt in and saw those 2 characters acting in that fashion.