Old 10-30-2007, 07:07 PM   #1
Term180
PQL Visitor
 
Term180's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 17
Default (#5.17) Goodbye Norma Jean

I don't understand- in the original history, Marilyn Monroe doesn't accept the offer from the girl who would wind up stealing her part in The Misfits, but when Sam leapt in, and convinced Marilyn to let the girl stay- he had to fix that which he had changed..

But, why leap him there in the first place, then?
If in the original history Marilyn made the movie, why would he have to leap in, to first change history so that she doesn't make the movie, then fix his own mistake, so that she could be in the film?
__________________
"And the same thing would have to happen if you continue to take an interest in this. And the further we go, if it speaks to you, then you would recognize that, "Goodness, I'm going to be shortly, literally, physically dropping out...dropping out of the world."-Marshall Applewhite "Heaven's Gate" Cult Leader, one half of the "UFO Two", and second-in-command to Ti of the "Total Overcomers".
Term180 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2007, 11:29 PM   #2
JuliaM
Project Observer
 
JuliaM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 820
Default

There's a combination of things. I believe his original mission was to prevent her death. It was then complicated when he unknowingly changed history...for the worse...leaving him with that mess to undo as well...and that's the quick, over-simplified response.
__________________
JuliaM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2007, 11:55 PM   #3
Sam Beckett Fan
Senior Leaper
 
Sam Beckett Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,802
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Term180
I don't understand- in the original history, Marilyn Monroe doesn't accept the offer from the girl who would wind up stealing her part in The Misfits, but when Sam leapt in, and convinced Marilyn to let the girl stay- he had to fix that which he had changed..

But, why leap him there in the first place, then?
If in the original history Marilyn made the movie, why would he have to leap in, to first change history so that she doesn't make the movie, then fix his own mistake, so that she could be in the film?
I asked this same question a while ago and Julia said that they had Sam's task be to create the real live history. In real life she managed to make the movie but for the sake of giving Sam a task they wrote that she had not originally. much like they did for LHO. As for the helper woman that tried to steal her role I don't watch the ep as its not one of my favorites so I am not sure what was going on with that.
__________________

-=-=-=-=-
Icon made by the lovely Ladystoneheart with the beautiful screen captures of StrayStar.
Signature made by me.
My QL screen capture collection: http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Sa...?sort=3&page=1
Sam Beckett Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 03:52 PM   #4
margarita_salt
PQL Visitor
 
margarita_salt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New York City
Posts: 19
Default

Thanks for asking that question, I have always wondered about that too. Why did Sam leap into Marilyn, in the original history she finished the picture anyway and then not save her...why even leap into her...but now I understand if he had not brought barabara into the equation he might have had a chance to save her..very confusing!!! "Goodbye Norma Jean" is still one of my favorite eppy's!
__________________
margarita_salt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 05:27 PM   #5
leaper
Control Room Technician
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 180
Default

And just to ad something else to in to this.Al said to sam that he leapt in to that man, so he could help marylin to finish her movie and aparently to save her life.
But at the end of the episode al told sam that marylin eventually finished her movie, but she died 2 years later.SO Why the heck sam leapt 2 years earlier before marylins death? and if Al takes all the info he gets from his handlink, which those info comes from ziggy,and which ziggy receives them from god,then would it be possible, that God ...made a mistake?
__________________
leaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 05:50 PM   #6
JuliaM
Project Observer
 
JuliaM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 820
Default

Let me see if I can simplify what I was trying to explain. As established in the episode "Lee Harvey Oswold", Sam did not leap from the same reality we now live in. One can almost say that by leaping, Sam is creating the reality we live in.

In the reality that Sam was from, Marilyn Monroe died in 1960. In our reality she died in 1962. So, intially Sam's mission was to prevent that death in 1960. He does that but, unwittingly, he's thrown a monkey wrench into things by introducing Barbara to the mix. That brings a second phase to Sam's mission - making sure Marilyn goes on to complete the movie the Misfits. By accomplishing both of these objectives, Sam has now created a history that matches the universe we live in.

As far as the data that Al gets from the handlink, that's coming from Ziggy who has been programmed with a database of events from Sam's lifetime. One can safely assume that as Sam's effecting changes in the past, Ziggy's database is also changing to reflect that past and, thus, that information can be relayed to Sam.

The only mistake that was really made in this leap was Sam's inadverent introduction of Barbara into the mix. However, Ziggy didn't have the information necessary to convey that until after Sam had aborted the premature death of Marilyn.
__________________

Last edited by JuliaM; 11-07-2007 at 10:06 PM.
JuliaM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 09:43 PM   #7
Lightning McQueenie
Project Observer
 
Lightning McQueenie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 990
Default

Actually he was there to prevent the death in 1960.

And he didn't leap into Marilyn, he leapt into her gophur guy.
__________________
Lightning McQueenie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 10:23 PM   #8
Sam Beckett Fan
Senior Leaper
 
Sam Beckett Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,802
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoniz
Let me see if I can simplify what I was trying to explain. As established in the episode "Lee Harvey Oswold", Sam did not leap from the same reality we now live in. One can almost say that by leaping, Sam is creating the reality we live in.

In the reality that Sam was from, Marilyn Monroe died in 1960. In our reality she died in 1962. So, intially Sam's mission was to prevent that death in 1960. He does that but, unwittingly, he's thrown a monkey wrench into things by introducing Barbara to the mix. That brings a second phase to Sam's mission - making sure Marilyn goes on to complete the movie the Misfits. By accomplishing both of these objectives, Sam has now created a history that matches the universe we live in.

As far as the data that Al gets from the handlink, that's coming from Ziggy who has been programmed with a database of events from Sam's lifetime. One can safely assume that as Sam's effecting changes in the past, Ziggy's database is also changing to reflect that past and, thus, that information can be relayed to Sam.

The only mistake that was really made in this leap was Sam's inadverent introduction of Barbara into the mix. However, Ziggy didn't have the information necessary to convey that until after Sam had aborted the premature death of Marilyn.
Right, The Film was not orignally an issue she managed to make it in Sam's original reality just as she did in real life and Sam's only task was to extend her life by two years but then he also jeopardized the film when he made the mistake of allowing Barbara into the picture. So the writers made up a reality in which the film did not get made so that Sam has to make sure it does to match real life.

The comparision to LHO since I was not clear before and not everyone knows their history; is that in reality Jackie Kennedy was not killed in the assination but the writers wrote that she was in the world Sam was born into and leaping from so that he needs to save her and match real life.
__________________

-=-=-=-=-
Icon made by the lovely Ladystoneheart with the beautiful screen captures of StrayStar.
Signature made by me.
My QL screen capture collection: http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Sa...?sort=3&page=1

Last edited by Sam Beckett Fan; 11-07-2007 at 10:36 PM.
Sam Beckett Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 10:42 PM   #9
JuliaM
Project Observer
 
JuliaM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 820
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan
Right, The Film was not orignally an issue she managed to make it in Sam's original reality just as she did in real life
Actually, in Sam's original reality, Marilyn Monroe never finished "The Misfits" since she died in April 1960 - before the movie was completed. If she had completed "The Misfits" in Sam's original reality, then there would have been no purpose for him to leap into her life since there would be no death to prevent in 1960.

edited to correct typo
__________________

Last edited by JuliaM; 11-08-2007 at 12:08 AM.
JuliaM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 10:52 PM   #10
Sam Beckett Fan
Senior Leaper
 
Sam Beckett Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,802
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoniz
Actually, in Sam's original reality, Marilyn Monroe didn't never finished "The Misfits" since she died in April 1960 - before the movie was completed. If she had completed "The Misfits" in Sam's original reality, then there would have been no purpose for him to leap into her life since there would be no death to prevent in 1960.
Oh right ok I see. Well than what about the repeat of the Edie incident where she ODs and he has to walk with her to keep her heart going. Was that not what Sam needed to do to extend her life for those two years? Meaning that he would have accomplished that mission but could not leap because Barbara threatened the film?
__________________

-=-=-=-=-
Icon made by the lovely Ladystoneheart with the beautiful screen captures of StrayStar.
Signature made by me.
My QL screen capture collection: http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Sa...?sort=3&page=1
Sam Beckett Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2000 - 2016 Al's Place Quantum Leap Fan Site | 4.8.15.16.23.42