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View Poll Results: What do you think?
Yes (why?) 9 60.00%
No (why?) 6 40.00%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-15-2007, 12:51 PM   #1
ChickenStu
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Default Did QL "Jump The Shark"? in Season 5?

A controversial question for sure. I was thinking about an old issue of SFX which had an article asking this very question.
The article thinks the show J'd the S in Season 5, when the producers made the decision to have Sam leap into real life personalities.
I actually do think these episodes where the weakest, with the notable exception of "Lee Harvey Oswald", which was superb.
Plus the idea of bringing in a recurring villian (Alia) also annoyed.

Did it or didn't it? Who knows. While I think Season 5 is a perfectly entertaining season, I do believe it contains some of the weakest episodes. And whilst the episode "Killin' Time" was a lot of fun, you have to admit - it was kinda gimmicky.
And then that "Leap Between The States" thing which broke the show's rule about Sam leaping beyond his own lifetime.

So Season 5. Did it end "Quantum Leap"?
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Old 12-15-2007, 04:56 PM   #2
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I think the 5th season were defenetly the weakest,But i also know,that most of the fault is NBC's.
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Old 12-15-2007, 07:12 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isz
I think the 5th season were defenetly the weakest,But i also know,that most of the fault is NBC's.
How so?
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:06 PM   #4
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I voted yes.

Leaping into real people, evil leapers, breaking rules that had been established since the pilot, and the fact that had QL not been cancelled anyway, the next series would have had leaps into the future.

Definitely shark jumping in my book.
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Old 12-16-2007, 04:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenStu
How so?
From other threads in the Forums here. From what i read the head of NBC's in those days demanded,that DBP do this - Leaping Sam into the life of real people(he also wanted them to bring in an "Evil leaper" and a lot more) . DPB didn't want to do it,but i guess he didn't have a lot of choices.
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Old 12-17-2007, 05:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenStu
A controversial question for sure. I was thinking about an old issue of SFX which had an article asking this very question.
The article thinks the show J'd the S in Season 5, when the producers made the decision to have Sam leap into real life personalities.
I actually do think these episodes where the weakest, with the notable exception of "Lee Harvey Oswald", which was superb.
Plus the idea of bringing in a recurring villian (Alia) also annoyed.

Did it or didn't it? Who knows. While I think Season 5 is a perfectly entertaining season, I do believe it contains some of the weakest episodes. And whilst the episode "Killin' Time" was a lot of fun, you have to admit - it was kinda gimmicky.
And then that "Leap Between The States" thing which broke the show's rule about Sam leaping beyond his own lifetime.

So Season 5. Did it end "Quantum Leap"?
Yes I think they kind of did jump the shark especially with farfetched episodes(In my opinion anyway) such as Blood Moon and Goodbye Norma Jean. QL had always been aimed around realistic situations with issues and ordeals that real people and familes go through. In fact one of the number one rules was that famous people were not allowed. Yet that rule was broken in season five. While I enjoy many episodes in season five nonetheless, only few such as Nowhere to Run continue to hold that good old QL feel goodness. Even Don and Debrah felt that season five killed the show and Debrah even refused to write anymore with the exception of an idea she had already had which was Trilogy. (Another Time, Another Place; Behind the scenes book).

A lot of season five was mainly for rating boosts which were only needed anyway because the new NBC guy(Sorry someone told me his name but I now forget it again as I have been busy with school and have not been here) moved its time block so it was pitted against Full House Which at the time was tough competition thanks mostly to the Olsen Twins as they were at their hugest during Full House and where the most popular character in the show. This was the reason Evil Leapers was created, to heat things up by giving Sam a rival and while I love Alia and her story I hate that she was nothing but a ratings gimmick.

Several episodes in season five definietly took it too far; Trilogy, Blood Moon, Memphis Melody(despite that Scott makes one sexy Elvis) and Goodbye Norma Jean are among the top in my opinion. Although I do enjoy some of them. And even though episodes like LHO, and Dr. Ruth are wonderful, it ticked me off that they broke the no famous people rule. Its one of the big factors that took away from the realisticness of the show. I was so glad to hear that Madonna had turned down a proposal to write an episode around her(Since she is a living celebrity unlike Elvis and Monroe they could not make an episode around her without her permission. The same most likely went for Dr. Ruth except she approved).
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan
I was so glad to hear that Madonna had turned down a proposal to write an episode around her.
Seriously, Madonna? That's a new one on me. I would be surprised if they could afford her even if she wanted to do it. I don't see Madonna as a good fit for QL anyhow so it's hard for me to imagine how it would work.

As far as jumping the shark, I don't know. I guess I don't really get what that means. If it means changing the concept of the show for the worse, then I think the evil leapers come perilously close.
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Old 12-17-2007, 12:21 PM   #8
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No, it didn't. "Jumping the shark" has a very specific meaning, one that does not fit here. It comes from an episode of Happy Days where the epitome of cool character, The Fonz, literally jumps a tank of sharks on his motorcycle. People now use the terms loosely (and incorrectly) to refer to when a show does something they don't like, whether it's introduce a new concept or character, or pursues a storyline that isn't as strong as previous "good" episodes.

But, frankly, that isn't what "jumping the shark" meant, originally. The phrase actually means the point in the show where you have strayed so far from the initial premise, usually to revive sagging ratings, that you can't go back. And while QL did have ratings issues, and, arguably, had weaker storylines in Season 5 (although I don't completely buy that as well - every season had episodes that could have been better), it never ditched the formula irrevocably.

The Evil Leapers were simply an addition - they didn't violate canon or change Sam's mission. In fact, they were hinted at in the B'man episode (where Sam is told that the devil is actively messing up people's lives). There was no in-show rule that Sam would not leap into famous people; that was a philosophy taken - and broken - by DB. And he only did it 3 times out of almost a hundred leaps. Each episode, even the Sam is nuts ones, remained true to the original premise, and so QL never did jump the shark.

Contrast that with the Happy Days episode. After performing such a hokey, cheesy stunt, Fonz could never go back the James Dean-esque coolness that defined his character. Ever. Another example of JTS-ing would be the spin off of Happy Days: Laverne and Shirley. After years of successful stories centered around these blue collar working girls in the late 50's/early 60's Milwaukee beer bottling plant, the show moved to Los Angeles - a completely opposite environment. They made up stupid reasons why everyone L&S knew would also move to LA, and when Cindy Williams refused to come back to the show, they put a double in a full body cast (with a "comic" accident explanation) and concentrated on the other characters. The bond between these two women, which was the premise for the show, was lost completely. That's jumping the shark. It also happens when writers introduce a new focus character (think "Cousin Oliver" on the Brady Bunch (a "jump" that preceded the term) or have the characters sleep together, thereby changing the fundamental relationship that made the series work (think Moonlighting)).

Up until the very last episode, QL was true to its premise - quantum physicist lost in time, living pieces of other people's lives, putting right things that went wrong, and hoping someday to get home. We really don't know what the 6th season would have brought. While Leaping Between the States broke the "within his own lifetime rule," it was addressed and explained in the show, and it didn't leave any permanent changes to the premise.
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Old 12-18-2007, 02:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snish
Seriously, Madonna? That's a new one on me. I would be surprised if they could afford her even if she wanted to do it. I don't see Madonna as a good fit for QL anyhow so it's hard for me to imagine how it would work.
Yes, I read this in the book Another Time Another Place Or maybe I read this one online, I forget but I know I read it somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedana
The Evil Leapers were simply an addition - they didn't violate canon or change Sam's mission. In fact, they were hinted at in the B'man episode (where Sam is told that the devil is actively messing up people's lives).
I don't believe the Evil Leapers were out of story or contest just a very different twist in the show, one that I like. And yes I believe that the Alia was the devil's second and this time indirect try at foiling Sam. I love how they alert us to the fact that there must be a counter to Sam's good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedana
There was no in-show rule that Sam would not leap into famous people; that was a philosophy taken - and broken - by DB.
Oh yes sorry I forgot to consider the project's rules, I should have been more clear, DB's rules is what I had meant by that. My bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedana
Up until the very last episode, QL was true to its premise - quantum physicist lost in time, living pieces of other people's lives, putting right things that went wrong, and hoping someday to get home.
Yes that's very true, but as I stated in my last post what I meant was that in the previous seasons the situations were realistic that can happen to real people and real families but some of the season five episodes go away from that mostly only Blood Moon though now that I think of it. I enjoy that episode but it is so urealistic. I suppose a lot of the episodes did keep to the realistic, feel goodness of QL but there were still episodes that just way off in a new direction such as Trilogy and Evil Leapers despite that I love Evil Leapers. At least up until the third one, its ok but I think by then they were taking the evil leapers way to far. I did not like Zoey as a leaper. It could have been massivly better without Zoey as a leaper alone. I Like season five I really do but I don;t know what it is, but it just does not have quite the same feeling that the rest of the show had.
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Old 12-18-2007, 03:56 AM   #10
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I guess it really does depend on what your opinion of what "jump the shark" really means. To me it just means when the show lost its momentum or something happened that just turns off most of the audience. For example, I like House, but all the crap thats going on with him picking new doctors has turned me off and I haven't watched it in weeks. I guess its jumped the shark for me... and don't let me get started on the crap that star trek voyager turned into. That jumped the shark the minute they started watering down chakotay's character and turned him into a wimpy yes man! Both of these are based on my opinion of what "jump the shark means"

However, Bluedana's explanation is much better, but did QL jump the shark in terms of this explanation. I guess the deviations were subtle enough (real people, evil leapers) that it really is a matter of personal opinion as to whether it fit Bluedana's explanation of "jumping the shark" Did it deviate from its original premise? No not really. But did the storylines change too much for the liking of the mass audience? Perhaps.
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Old 12-18-2007, 08:03 AM   #11
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In my opinion QL only really 'rode the wave' in terms of Shark Jumping. You could say that the real celebrity leaps and evil leaper episodes were bad but I actually don't mind them. I even find that the 5th Season's themetune has grown on me now! ....

To be honest the only reeaalllly unbearable moment I can think of is that Sam never leapt home, but I'm sure that Don Bellisario and the other crew all had a plan for that, even if Season 6 never came to fruitition.

BTW: I actually created a thread about this last year:
http://www.quantumleap-alsplace.com/...ead.php?t=3067
(Man I was soooo biased then, take no notice of my babbling! )
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:50 AM   #12
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Enterprise said:
Quote:
BTW: I actually created a thread about this last year
You know, I knew I'd gone on a Happy Days/Laverne and Shirley JTS rant before. Sorry.
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedana
You know, I knew I'd gone on a Happy Days/Laverne and Shirley JTS rant before. Sorry.
It was new to me, and it was interesting. It seems to me, though, that the two shows did two quite different things. Maybe I just wasn't that impressed with Fonzie, because I'm inclined to say, "Fonzie jumped over a shark? So what?" To me it doesn't even seem that far off for a character in a show that was silly to begin with. "Cool" is so subjective anyway. Is this really different than any show that makes one weak episode? (My husband has a whole rant about Fonzie, who was a prettied-up, watered-down version of the real leather-jacket punks in his neighborhood in those days. Those guys weren't cool. They were genuinely dangerous. But I digress.)

Laverne and Shirley, on the other hand, made a major change in format. Moving that show to LA would be like moving Seinfeld to Little Rock. Losing Shirley would be like... replacing Al with a smart-mouthed teenage Observer. So if that's jumping the shark, QL never did it. But it could have if the show continued in the direction it seemed to be going.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedana
No, it didn't....
We really don't know what the 6th season would have brought. While Leaping Between the States broke the "within his own lifetime rule," it was addressed and explained in the show, and it didn't leave any permanent changes to the premise.
First of all, I agree. Quantum Leap did not Leap the Shark

Secondly, In The Leap Between The States, the explanation that's given for how Sam leaped beyond his own lifetime; that's called a "lantern-hanging" explanation. (Stargate SG-1 200th episode) Funny, Willie Garson played the part of the head writer, Martin Lloyd.

Some people don't like Trilogy because of the curse that haunted Abigail. While I liked the episode and many others did as well, there are also a lot of people who did not really enjoy it. (Forgive the preposition. ) But when a writer(like Deborah Pratt in this case) gets an idea, they must do everything they can to convince the head writer that it's worthy of the series. (I know that Deborah Pratt was the head writer of the series so she probably either handed it over to Don to see what he thought or just made it her own decision.) For fan writers(QL: TVS), the VERY SAME THING applies. Basically, that is. When someone, "anyone*, gets an idea they must do everything they can to flesh it out and to write it, which in some cases they do it independently, partially independent, or co-write with at least 1 other person.

And sometimes a thread can "jump the shark". To prevent that from happening...

TRILOGY: There's a darn good reason why it was written and aired. It was because Deborah Pratt, writer/Co-Executive Producer, had the idea in her head already before saying that she wasn't going to write anymore. Of course she could've made that decision after recieving the news that NBC was canceling the show after that season. All in all, Season 5 was very well done even though I did not like "Blood Moon". Sam leaping into a vampire is very unrealistic. Quantum Leap can't jump the shark unless you have Sam change sides to work for Lothos or Lothoman(if you follow TVS). Not that he did do that, because he didn't.

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Old 12-19-2007, 02:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snish
It seems to me, though, that the two shows did two quite different things. Maybe I just wasn't that impressed with Fonzie, because I'm inclined to say, "Fonzie jumped over a shark? So what?" To me it doesn't even seem that far off for a character in a show that was silly to begin with. "Cool" is so subjective anyway. Is this really different than any show that makes one weak episode? . . .
Laverne and Shirley, on the other hand, made a major change in format. Moving that show to LA would be like moving Seinfeld to Little Rock. Losing Shirley would be like... replacing Al with a smart-mouthed teenage Observer. So if that's jumping the shark, QL never did it. But it could have if the show continued in the direction it seemed to be going.
Exactly. JTS also has an element of "desperate ratings grab." Like, is anybody really going to believe that Fonzie is going to plunge into a shark-infested tank and be devoured? The "tune in next week to see what happens!!!" was just dumb. (Unlike, say, the "Who Shot JR?" cliffhanger - that was brilliant.) I was in grade school when Happy Days started, and everybody was going around giving the thumbs up, saying "Sit on it!", trying to open up or start things (like lockers and jukeboxes) by thumping them, and of course saying "Aaaay!" - just like Fonzie. We were dorks. For The Fonz, late in the series run, to do something so cheesy and Evel Knievel-ish (no offense to that late gentleman), was very un-cool, and signaled the onset of BEST! EVER! hype that masks the fact that they've run out of ideas.

In the interest of full disclosure, I liked the Elvis and Marilyn episodes, but dispised the Dr. Ruth one (except for certain scenes). So while I get that they were done for ratings, they didn't fundamentally change the character. Dr. Ruth was just, imo, a dumb leap with two annoying people whom I wished Sam wouldn't help because then they'd be twice as annoying. Blood Moon I just chalked up as self-consciously camp, an homage to Dark Shadows.

Quote:
(My husband has a whole rant about Fonzie, who was a prettied-up, watered-down version of the real leather-jacket punks in his neighborhood in those days. Those guys weren't cool. They were genuinely dangerous. But I digress.)
Your poor husband! M*A*S*H must have been awful for him. I can imagine him going "Hey, NO wacky hijinks in Korea!" (I'm just kidding you, Snish. That mental image was just too funny to let pass.)
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Old 12-19-2007, 04:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedana
Your poor husband! M*A*S*H must have been awful for him. I can imagine him going "Hey, NO wacky hijinks in Korea!" (I'm just kidding you, Snish. That mental image was just too funny to let pass.)
He does have some trouble suspending disbelief. That's why he doesn't like QL, I suppose. In some respects he has a better sense of humor than I do (he doesn't actually have any problem with wacky hijinks in Korea), but he just has this thing about Fonzie. He was just too old at the time to appreciate Happy Days. I was too old to go around saying "Aaaaay!" but I still liked the show, at least for a while.

Anyway, back to the topic. Neither Sam nor Al ever did anything unforgivably stupid and out of character, so QL doesn't jump the shark on that account. And no basic changes of format. I don't have any major problem with the celebrity episodes and I happen to like Blood Moon 'cause I like vampire stories.
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:49 AM   #17
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I like Blood Moon because the male vampire wannabe...wish I could recall the actor's real name...is dead sexy. Ian Buchanan! I think that's it. When I was in college I would watch General Hospital between classes just for him! :
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Old 12-20-2007, 02:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDuck
I like Blood Moon because the male vampire wannabe...wish I could recall the actor's real name...is dead sexy. Ian Buchanan! I think that's it. When I was in college I would watch General Hospital between classes just for him! :
Yup, I think it is Ian Buchanan. I remember when he was on General Hospital, too. Can't quite remember much about his character but I remember him being on it.
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Old 12-20-2007, 03:26 PM   #19
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A rival villian time traveller was a good idea, but I don't think the story was handled very well in all honesty. And with the exception of the superb "Lee Harvey Oswald" I thought the "real life leap" episodes were atrocious.
Especially "Dr Ruth" which was a total embarrasment.
And that bloody awful theme music.
Sorry guys, but a couple of good episodes here and there aside, I think the season is rubbish.
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Old 12-26-2007, 01:55 PM   #20
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QL never jumped anything but the competition... when NBC would let them compete. Leaping into real people was bound to happen anyway... since early in the show he had Leaped near famous people, for instance Buddy Holly and Micheal Jackson. Leaping into one of them eventually was bound to happen. And so who says vampires aren't real? Non-vampires?
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:48 AM   #21
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I couldn't have said it better this is exactly how I feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naggindragon
I voted yes.

Leaping into real people, evil leapers, breaking rules that had been established since the pilot, and the fact that had QL not been cancelled anyway, the next series would have had leaps into the future.

Definitely shark jumping in my book.
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:24 AM   #22
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I have to say though, Happy Days, even though jumping the shark, managed to have over 100 more episodes afterwards lol.
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:10 PM   #23
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QL didnt jump, it was pushed
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:35 PM   #24
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No. I liked the fifth season. Honestly, ever show has a point where it changes a little, I guess I'm not the type of fan that freaks out about it. I really like it when a show gets a little fresher.

Besides, people are only naming about five episodes from the fifth season that sucked. You could do that for any season of QL!
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