The Evil Leaper Episodes - Good Writing/Bad Fiction or Both?

leonni

Project QL Intern
Apr 9, 2007
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I'm going to preface this by saying I am not a huge fan of science fiction. I liked the original Star Trek and I loved Quantum Leap. I liked them for the human element, and its tie ins with life major themes and questions (I"m a historian by training, a teacher by profession).

To me the core element that drew me to Quantum Leap was it's premise...that Sam is jumping into the past and altering something for the betterment of that person's life. I never liked the Evil Leaper series because it deviated from this golden premise. It made it into more of a game, and much more science fictiony than I was interested in. I guess it took something that almost had some realism in it, where on only had to suspend their disbelief so far to something that required a person to suspend their disbelief indefinately. It's been said many times on this site that QL was never able to truly grab the science fiction audience. I am sure that is true, but by not limiting themselves to science fiction they grabbed another audience made up of people like me that were not sold on science fiction.

I just feel like the writer's shouldn't have deviated from their golden structure and in the mini-series where they do (Evil Leaper Bits, Trilogy, and to this I'll add the Elvis and Marilyn episodes since the famous personas detracted from the story rather than adding to it) just kind of made the whole series fall flat and fall apart.

I'll add to it the original Mirror Image ending that is posted on this site and had Sam leaping in his body into the future, and Al running around after him. Personally if that is the direction the story was going to take I'm not sad that it ended. Again it deviates from the golden structure of the series, and the core relationship of Al and Sam.

It's not to say that I can't appreciate these episodes as good writing. So I have to say they're good writing but bad fiction. The kind that leaves you scratching your head and asking "why did they do that?"

But on the other hand I know a lot of people consider those three stories their favorites.

And like I said, I never was a fan of science fiction. :hat

So how do you feel about the evil leaper series?
 
I love the evil leapers. Hate the idea of them and the reason they were created. But they were created well and I liked them. Basically I loved Alia's charactor, and Renee Colemen is awsome. Now the Trilogies I can't stand, THOSE I believe to be a bad fanfic.
 
leonni said:
I never liked the Evil Leaper series because it deviated from this golden premise. It made it into more of a game, and much more science fictiony than I was interested in. . .

So how do you feel about the evil leaper series?

I'm not strongly against the evil leaper stories, but I don't care much for them, and I'm glad they didn't get beyond 3 of them. To me they're not science fiction--they're more like a comic book. QL was always about realistic characters having realistic problems, but the evil leapers are more like mustache-twirling dastardly villains, people who supposedly take delight in hurting people. I can't believe in their project as an earthly project run by ordinary people who got hijacked by the devil--to me it only makes sense if they're coming from hell, and I'm not crazy about that idea because I don't believe in hell. But I figure I don't have to agree with everything in QL, I didn't write it.

My only problem with the celebrity episodes is that it's difficult to work with known historical figures whose lives you really can't change. It didn't work in Lee Harvey Oswald, when they tried to claim that the original history was different and Sam gave us the history that we know. It didn't work in the Marilyn Monroe ep. when Sam saved her, but only for a couple of years. I still find those episodes enjoyable--LHO is riveting, even--but the endings tend to fall apart.

So are these well-written episodes good fiction? If the basic idea is flawed, it can't be really good fiction--but I wouldn't apply the same standards to TV stories that I would to novels, say. I don't blame QL for trying some different approaches, even if they don't fully work for me.
 
I personally loved the evil leaper episodes. Why I liked them is actually because it did deviate from the show's original premise. I thought the first episode, "Deliver Us From Evil," was beautifully written, where it was able to balance the show's original premise with a risky, new concept. I always saw the episodes as a shot in the arm for the show (as I viewed most of Season 5, for that matter). The only problem is I wish all of the new ideas the show explored didn't all get jumbled into one season.

From my point of view, how many times can you possibly keep the same structure of an episode before it begins to feel stale? I certainly agree with the comment above that the evil leaper trilogy ended up feeling like a comic book, though. But I grew up as a comic book fan, and the science fiction backdrop of the show is actually what attracted me to it as a kid. I may not have understood it nearly as well as I do now, but seeing Al walking through things and a guy traveling through time was good enough for me. Those aspects made it OK for me as a 9-year-old to get into a show that's truly about human dramas and moral lessons.

So, it makes perfect sense for me to have the opposite view of the episodes as leonni does, because we got into the show for opposite reasons. As for the writing of the episodes, I found them to be excellent, but only if the viewer can accept the fact that there's a mirror image (no pun intended) of Sam's project out there destroying lives for the pleasure of it. I will admit that by the time "Revenge Of the Evil Leaper" aired that the concept may have stretched a little too far for its own good. Regardless, I believe the episode is as good as something like that possibly could have been.

I suppose the thing with my view of the show is that the science fiction backdrop of the show had more potential than originally intended. By the time Season 5 rolled around, Don Bellisario and Deborah Pratt realized it and acted on it. I'm not too crazy about the "celebrity" episodes or "The Leap Between the States" (the episode has no real reason for Sam to even be there at all!), and I don't know anymore if that's because I just didn't think they were that good, or if they only existed because of the pressure NBC put on Bellisario to keep the show on the air. But I am glad that the show took other directions for the brief amount of time it was able to.
 
I love the evil leaper stories. They are good fiction because they create conflict for the series as a whole, and good writing. The story even continued(not on TV) and the evil "Lothos" is STILL around. He's like Anubis(from Stargate SG-1). Lothos is very, very, hard to kill off. The more writers you have, the harder it gets to end the story arc. Oh boy, I couldn't resist the nod to TVS. :lol

I have a theory about the "why". Why was the evil leaper story arc started?
Well, it might be because NBC ordered Bellisario to come up with an opposition to Sam and Al. If I'm right, then NBC was attempting to draw in the scifi audience. Even though Alia was created to be the opposing force, it turned out that she actually was a good person and with the help of Sam, was freed from Lothos. That makes Sam and Alia similar to Jack and Teal'c. I've mentioned that similarity here on this board before.

Of all the celeb leaps, my favorite is "Dr. Ruth" That was the first celeb leap but not the first time Sam's leapt into someone that actually existed.

Leonni, you said that you don't like the intended cliffhanger into the 6th season....

Well, check out the virtual 6th season opener if you have not already. Hosted here on Al's Place. It takes place in 1998. Another wrong to be put right. The downside for you is the fact that Sam leaps into twins and there's another leaper!! I won't say any more so as not to spoil anything. So, yes, the story is science fictiony, but give it a whirl, again if you haven't already.

Steve B.

P.S. I know, I talk a lot. :lol Leap on!
 
QL Nut said:
From my point of view, how many times can you possibly keep the same structure of an episode before it begins to feel stale?

I do agree with this point. QL was very formula-bound, following the same structure for each episode. And with Sam leaping into the same 4 decades only, it was beginning to look repetitive, when one of the strengths of this show was always its quality of freshness and originality. So I don't mind them trying new things. The thing I like most about season 5 is that we finally get to see some of Project Quantum Leap and Al having scenes with other people.

I don't know about NBC drawing more of a sci fi audience--they probably already had it since there's so little science fiction on network TV. DPB & co. were under pressure to raise the ratings any way they could, and creating more conflict, and new situations that Sam hadn't been in before, seemed to be the best chance.
 
From my point of view, how many times can you possibly keep the same structure of an episode before it begins to feel stale?

Whilst I respect the pov's already posted here, imho I totally disagree with this.

To plug away as Ross has already done - witness the Virtual Seasons.

Yes, they have diverted recently as well into strange new territory, but we are now well into Season 13 and in all that time, there have been plenty of 'regular' leaps. I myself have plot bunnies for a dozen or more 'regular' leaps that I am working on (as well as a couple of very unusual, sci-fi-ish ones!)

I know a lot of fanfic writers who have written and continue to write 'regular' leaps.

There is a great diversity among these standard leaps, and to me they have never become stale.

There are so many situations and professions that Sam can be thrown into, so much potential for danger, drama and humour, that I think we can safely see many more 'episodes' via fanfic without it becoming stale.

But then, maybe when it comes to Quantum Leap I am just easily pleased?
If so, so be it!
 
I should probably add that I didn't mean that she show should have scrapped its original episode stucture entirely. Of course its format is the heart and soul of the series. What I meant was that I found it very refreshing to see a little bit of variety thrown in. However, episodes like "Killin' Time" or "Deliver Us From Evil" probably wouldn't stand out nearly as much if we had too many stand-alone episodes as opposed to formulaic ones. So it works both ways. As Al himself said, "I like variety." :p
 
snish said:
The thing I like most about season 5 is that we finally get to see some of Project Quantum Leap and Al having scenes with other people.
Yeah I like that too I wish they had thought of that in the earlier seasons becuase there are a lot of leapees I would have loved to see in the waiting room Billie Jean being one of them. It would have added more drama to the episode thats for sure trying to figure out where exactly the baby is and stuff.

Edit: Oooh and Shock Theater. I just thought of that. They should have shown some of the panic at the project trying to keep contact with Sam. That would have been great.
 
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leonni said:
So how do you feel about the evil leaper series?

Ever since you posted this, Leonni, I have been patient to see what others have written.

Okay. I shall say this bluntly: I LOVE THE EVIL LEAPER STORIES!

The question of the decade is why? Why? BECAUSE!

The teacher in me says that that answer is not appropriate, however, the writer in me says, "Yeah, that's right! Because!"

We learned in B-man that there is an opposite to every coin. Good vs. Evil. Right? Right. God vs Devil.

Now... I think that it was the right thing of Donald Bellasario to bring in the total opposite of Sam Beckett -- Alia. Now... with how he set it up, there is another project out there destroying the lives of others while Sam is there trying to build it up. In those three episodes, I think that they set the stage rather well.

Now...being the producer of Quantum Leap: The Virtual Seasons and Quantum Retribution, I have to find a happy medium in what I write and do for each "show".

Quantum Leap: The Virtual Seasons does deal with the Evil Leapers from time to time to let people know that the evil is still out there. Lothos is still around and still destroying people's lifes.

Is he the only one? No. He's not. We have touched upon the day of September the 11th and have very respectfully given our prayers and condolescenses to those who were killed. In this season, in the story "Evil Reborn 2: A New Chapter" Sam finally gets to experience what everyone else witnessed that sad day. It's in that moment that he turns to Al and asks only one word, "Lothos?" Al's only response was: "No, Sam. Not Lothos. This time... this time, it was someone far worse than Lothos."

I think that the thing here is that a lot of what people do -- the choices that we make in life -- the free will to decide -- is what can either help or hurt you.

Now... Quantum Retribution. Ohhhhhh what a web we weave.... :)
Quantum Retribution is the other side to the Quantum Leap: The Virtual Seasons coin. If you go there, you'll see how Lothos' people live. The problems that they face. They are just normal people who have made an obviously VERY bad decision and have in essence lost their choice in doing right or wrong. When you have an implants in your skull letting an evil maniacal ego-bound computer seeing whatever you see and hear whatever you hear and when he could strike you dead at any moment for any discretion, one tends to do what Lothos wants.

Quantum Retribution is the lives of those people doing what they think is the right thing to do so that they will survive. Not thrive, as John Beckett once put it, but survive!

Ok. I've blathered on enough... but I do love the episodes because it opened up a whole NEW area... and it absolutely let Eleiece and I go into an area that we have found to be rather... enjoyable. :) Yes, we do some horrific things to the characters in several scenes, and then we turn around and have a romantic scene in there as well and some dandy fights. The thing is that we have fun writing the stories and enjoy them.

Is Quantum Retribution for everyone? The Evil Leapers? For goodness sakes no! It's not everyone's cup of tea. We understand that. However, please do respect that we are writing for the pure joy of it -- to tell a story and *grin* we have some doozys that we think that you'd LOVE to read -- that are between all the gross, icky parts that have to be a part of the Quantum Retribution world.

Sooooooooooooooooo...

*MJ does get off of her soap box and stands it up along the wall before she slowly meanders back out into the middle of the stage*

To answer that question once more:

Do I like the evil leapers?

:eek Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh heck yeah! :p
 
Yeah and I love the idea that while Alia is Sam's opposite she is also in many ways his equal. Becuase she feels the same ways he does and experiences some of the same stuff. Plus we find out that she's not really evil its Lathos that is, and of course Zoey who both forced her into what she does. That was really great, and I loved how sam picked up on that so quick, like I said in the Deliver Us From Evil thread my fav line in the ep is during the gun scene
"You're not evil Alia, whoever is leaping you around in time is"
So Classic Sam. I go into much better detail in the Deliver Us From Evil Thread.
 
Personally I really enjoyed the Evil Leaper episodes. Alia and Zoey were really well written characters and really evil, and fighting against Sam’s immense goodness :angel was an ultimate battle I loved to watch. And in response to what Snish posted…

Originally Posted by Snish
I can't believe in their project as an earthly project run by ordinary people who got hijacked by the devil--to me it only makes sense if they're coming from hell.
I thought this was just to fit in with the theory that God was leaping Sam around, and in a battle of good vs. evil the devil would have to have and equivalent leaper.

I especially liked that they chose to corrupt Jimmy’s life. I know many people didn’t like to see this as Jimmy was a favourite episode, and its one of mine, I cared about the episode so much, but what better for the Evil Leapers to mess up than an episode so many people cared about and have people crying out ‘How can they do this to Jimmy?.. they’re pure evil!

However I do think that their appearance was partly down to NBC trying to increase viewing figures, as were many other elements of series 5 that didn’t gel with the original premise such as the vampire, Bigfoot and aliens that Sam Beckett Fan also mentioned.

Im not a fan of the celeb leaps at all, as Sam was supposed to be changing people’s lives that seemed insignificant, but doing much more without realising it like The Bartender said.

Unfortunately all these new ideas that appeared in series 5
were jumbled up in one series to try and spice it up to save the series through ratings, but as this forum showed this tactic divided some core fans, and inevitably didn’t work.

I just like to think of series 5 like a pizza, picking out the things I don’t like and enjoying the rest. We just have to accept the evil leaper episodes as something that was tried out, some people liked it others didn’t.Maybe if Quantum Leap returned the Evil Leapers, and other series 5 elements that didn’t gel with the original series premise could be delt with, but until then the forums will have to battle it out, Sam vs. Evil Leapers stylee.
 
I don't want to bust anybody's paradigm, but, I like some Sc-Fi/Fantasy and have never been able to get into comic books. I love Quantum Leap because it is, to me, the right blend of SciFi and drama. I was an adult when it premiered.

I like the concept of the Evil Leapers, but some elements of the execution make my back teeth hurt. I dispise Zoey and Thames, and couldn't really get into the idea that Evil Project completely mirrored PQL (the handlink, the hologram, etc.). But as a concept? I think it was a great idea. As someone said upthread, we know from B*man that the Evil One was aware of Sam Beckett and pissed about him. Sending his minions to mess with Sam's work made sense.

As for the celebrity episodes, with the exception Dr. Ruth (which is basically unwatchable for me), I like them. I think LHO's history-changing premise was a stroke of genius, and very unexpected. I disagree that Leap Between the States had no reason for Sam to be there - he was there for the runaway slave family, not for his foreparents to hook up or for Isaac to get a name. Al's knowledge of the future battles in the area and the Underground Railroad route saved them (presumably). But there wouldn't have been any data on either their original history or their changed history because it was the nature of slavery not to have any record of them at all beyond a bill of sale. Likewise, in Memphis Melody, he's not there to get Elvis discovered; he's there to convince the waitress to live her dream and not marry the nozzle.

I do agree that formulaic shows run the risk of getting stale. It can become "How is Sam going to solve the problem," which is less interesting than, "Will Sam solve the problem." I think the show came up with cool, inventive ways to keep the show fresh, including my favorite "Sam loses his mind" episodes. And as a writer of a couple of "formula" QL fiction pieces, I love the challenge of coming up with a problem that has to be solved, yet telling a story that follows the "formula" but isn't formulaic.
I'll add to it the original Mirror Image ending that is posted on this site and had Sam leaping in his body into the future, and Al running around after him. Personally if that is the direction the story was going to take I'm not sad that it ended. Again it deviates from the golden structure of the series, and the core relationship of Al and Sam.
I totally agree with this, leonni. And while I insist that QL never did jump that shark, I suspect it would have had this premise been followed.
 
That's one of the things that's great about Quantum Leap; it appeals to a wide variety of people. It may be sci-fi in some ways, but it can be enjoyed by people who aren't into the genre, too. Interestingly, even though I'm a huge sci-fi fan, I didn't get into QL because it's sci-fi. It was the characters that appealed to me. My appreciation of the science fiction elements came later.

Okay... enough deviating off topic for me. I'm a little torn about the evil leapers. I liked Deliver Us From Evil, but the other two aren't among my favorites. In Deliver, the evil leapers were kind of mysterious, hinting that maybe they had been sent from Hell. Scary thought, especially since we know the devil has it in for Sam. But the other two episodes made it seem more like some knock-off project.

As for the celeb leaps, I have mixed feelings about them. LHO was eerily good, and Memphis Melody was fun, even if it didn't have a life-or-death situation. They were interesting, but Sam was constrained by the fact that he couldn't alter the history of the celebrity, so he couldn't do anything really life-altering. Okay, so he did change lives, but not as spectacularly as he has in other leaps.

And The Leap Between the States is one of my favorite episodes. I'm a sucker for the period, and Sam looked good in that uniform. And shackled and shirtless. :D While the episode didn't have an obvious reason for Sam to be there, I agree with bluedana about Sam purpose being to help the runaway slaves. And I wonder if they had something else in mind, too... perhaps they wanted to show that Sam could bloodline leap, and thus leap outside his lifetime, so they could use this concept later.

leonni said:
I'll add to it the original Mirror Image ending that is posted on this site and had Sam leaping in his body into the future, and Al running around after him. Personally if that is the direction the story was going to take I'm not sad that it ended. Again it deviates from the golden structure of the series, and the core relationship of Al and Sam.

I tend ot agree with this. I admit, I'd have loved to have seen Sam leap into the future. And I'd have enjoyed seeing Al leap into a woman - especially an attractive one that attracts every guy in the room. But this ending was bizarre, and I don't think it would've worked out.
 
I didn't care for the Evil Leaper episodes, especially the last one in the women's prison. I could buy the idea of an evil leaper, and I also wish she had been truly evil and not just used by evil forces. It seemed as thought the writers were making things up as they went along, with Zoe leaping and then the appearance of Thames.

I wish the writers had worked harder on keeping the basic formula fresh, rather than introducing a bunch of new gimmicks all at once. I liked seeing more of PQL, especially the leapee's point of view. But the rest...the celebrity leaps, the evil leaper, the leap outside Sam's own lifetime--one would have been more than adequate. Having them all at once just screamed "desperation."
 
Aging Boomer said:
especially the last one in the women's prison.

Yeah I didn't much care for Revenge Eaither. I really didn't care for Zoey becoming a leaper although I found Thames mildy amusing. I think at that point they took the evil leapers too far so its good they ended it right there. The only thing I really like about this ep is Sam's protectiveness of Alia, like when he held her after she was screaming in the chamber where she was chained to the wall. But that's just the romantic in me speaking there hehe.

The idea of the evil leapers definietly took away from the feeling QL is supposed to have, All of Season five did. Even Don agreed according to Another Time Another Place. Season five was all the new NBC guy's doing in attempt for ratings which is the thing about the evil leapers I hate. I just like them for the stories and the Udea of Sam having an oppsite yet equal, and I love Alia's charactor.
 
Sam Beckett Fan said:
The idea of the evil leapers definietly took away from the feeling QL is supposed to have, All of Season five did. Even Don agreed according to Another Time Another Place. Season five was all the new NBC guy's doing in attempt for ratings which is the thing about the evil leapers I hate. I just like them for the stories and the Udea of Sam having an oppsite yet equal, and I love Alia's charactor.

May be true, but even still it does not mean Season 5's quality is sub-par; it just means it had a different tone. Don may not have liked it himself, and it may not have been what he would have wanted to do, but that's not to be confused for quality science fiction writing. I'm glad the series was able to expand on the sci-fi backdrop, even if it mostly became jumbled in one season, because there was a lot of potential in it.
 
I was not implying that it was the Evil Leapers that made season five less QL like, most all of season five did. Bigfoot, vampires, cursed families...all of that.
 
bluedana said:
I disagree that Leap Between the States had no reason for Sam to be there - he was there for the runaway slave family, not for his foreparents to hook up or for Isaac to get a name. Al's knowledge of the future battles in the area and the Underground Railroad route saved them (presumably). But there wouldn't have been any data on either their original history or their changed history because it was the nature of slavery not to have any record of them at all beyond a bill of sale.

Not to drift off-topic, but I always believed the runaway slave family had survived the first time. At the end of the episode, Isaac chooses the last name "King," supposedly as a result of Sam's actions. But Isaac obviously must have chosen this name anyway in the original history, because Martin Luthor King existed in it, too. So to me it seemed like the point of the episode was to name Martin Luthor King by saving the runaway slave family, who was able to use the name the first time. It seems to me that Sam's presence there actually needlessly endangered his own existence, much like Back To the Future.
 
Sam Beckett Fan said:
The idea of the evil leapers definietly took away from the feeling QL is supposed to have, All of Season five did. Even Don agreed according to Another Time Another Place. Season five was all the new NBC guy's doing in attempt for ratings which is the thing about the evil leapers I hate. I just like them for the stories and the Udea of Sam having an oppsite yet equal, and I love Alia's charactor.

QL Nut said:
May be true, but even still it does not mean Season 5's quality is sub-par; it just means it had a different tone. Don may not have liked it himself, and it may not have been what he would have wanted to do, but that's not to be confused for quality science fiction writing. I'm glad the series was able to expand on the sci-fi backdrop, even if it mostly became jumbled in one season, because there was a lot of potential in it.

Sam Beckett Fan said:
I was not implying that it was the Evil Leapers that made season five less QL like, most all of season five did. Bigfoot, vampires, cursed families...all of that.

In essence you did imply that SBF. This part of your above quote "The idea of the evil leapers definietly took away from the feeling QL is supposed to have, All of Season five did," says that it DEFINITELY took away from it.

I do agree with Chris. The whole season went off on a different air, but that didn't mean that it went away from QL. He's still out there correcting wrongs and making them right. I understand that you don't like Bigfoot, vampires, cursed families, and the like. Some people don't like the ones with him leaping into celebrities. I understand that. I really do. Even when it's been said time and time again.

Here's the thing. Everything has an opposite side. Everything -- including Sam Beckett. I thought it was an excellent idea. Perhaps that is why I got into the Quantum Retribution field.

Does that mean that I think that everyone is going to like it? No, I don't think that. If you like it, great. If you don't like it, that's fine with me. We write it to have some quality time writing. We have fun and that's what matters!

I still think that Season 5 is just as good as the other seasons. He's still doing good deeds. He's still correcting wrongs. He's doing his job -- at least the one that GTFW wants him to do.

Thanks.
 
The bartender's said this(Bruce McGill), and I'm gonna say it as well. Sam Beckett is in control of his destiny. He subconsciously chooses to continue to "put right what once went wrong". The only purpose that GTFW serves is to see that not everything gets changed. Sam and Al tried desperately to prevent the murder of JFK, but because of the strong neural connection between him and Oswald, he wasn't able to stay in control and he was a "helpless observer inside his own body". :lol Sound familiar? Some things aren't meant to be changed, but he did end up saving the life of the first lady.

The only episode I didn't like in the fifth season was "Blood Moon". I still love the superstitious Al vs. skeptical Sam and I still roflmao at the scene where Al enters the Imaging Chamber, walks through the wall, sees Sam looking at the wall that Al walked through, Al turns around and screams. :lol

I know I've said this before, but:
Lothos as Goa'uld
...which is actually impossible seeing that Lothos was created by the writers as a computer, not a person, so without further ado...

Lothoman(TVS/Retribution) as Goa'uld(Stargate SG-1)
Now there's a novel concept. Evil inside evil!

~Steve B.
 
QlDamsel said:
In essence you did imply that SBF. This part of your above quote "The idea of the evil leapers definietly took away from the feeling QL is supposed to have, All of Season five did," says that it DEFINITELY took away from it.

Took away does not mean totally responsible, at least not in my meaning of it, I am sorry if you saw it otherwise. Obviously I like the Evil Leapers eaither way though.

I do agree with Chris. The whole season went off on a different air, but that didn't mean that it went away from QL. He's still out there correcting wrongs and making them right. I understand that you don't like Bigfoot, vampires, cursed families, and the like. Some people don't like the ones with him leaping into celebrities. I understand that. I really do. Even when it's been said time and time again.

Well yes of course the concept is the same, I was indicating the types of jobs and tasks and identities he was taking on. They were more realistic in the other four seasons, altough maybe a little less of season four but the majority of it was fine.
I mean I see your point and I value it, as I do everyone's but don't I make a point, at least 1%.

And the evil Leapers I actually did find to be pretty realistic at least until the third one because every good has to have its evil to quote Devil Al in B-man
"Good and bad, Yin and Yang, God and...
"The devil!"


Plus I kind of like the slight connection because the Devil clearly states that he wants to stop Sam meddling with his work, he fails to strangle him to death because God saves him. Sothen Alia comes along. hmmm? ;)
Could old Satin be trying again?
 
QL Nut said:
Not to drift off-topic, but I always believed the runaway slave family had survived the first time. At the end of the episode, Isaac chooses the last name "King," supposedly as a result of Sam's actions. But Isaac obviously must have chosen this name anyway in the original history, because Martin Luthor King existed in it, too. So to me it seemed like the point of the episode was to name Martin Luthor King by saving the runaway slave family, who was able to use the name the first time. It seems to me that Sam's presence there actually needlessly endangered his own existence, much like Back To the Future.
I think Isaac renaming himself and the fate of the runaway family are two different things. Isaac probably would have taken the name "King," when officially freed under the Emancipation Proclamation anyway, just as thousand of others named themselves variations of "Freed Man," or other significant words. I don't think the runaway family took the name King - they weren't related to Isaac, or presumably to MLK. I think we aren't meant to know the ultimate change in history accomplished by Sam, because as slaves, there would be no record of them.

Lots of people think that Leap Between the States is gimmicky, along with other Season 5 episodes, and I respect that. But, personally, I liked that (a) they told stories in a different way, and (b) they illustrated the idea that the Bartender reiterates in Mirror Image: that Sam isn't there to make big, sweeping historical changes (like stopping the U2 from being shot down) but that his actions influence people and they go on to influence others. I think the runaway slave family is a great illustration of this, because it leaves to our imagination what changes occurred because of Sam's leap.
 
bluedana said:
I think Isaac renaming himself and the fate of the runaway family are two different things. Isaac probably would have taken the name "King," when officially freed under the Emancipation Proclamation anyway, just as thousand of others named themselves variations of "Freed Man," or other significant words. I don't think the runaway family took the name King - they weren't related to Isaac, or presumably to MLK. I think we aren't meant to know the ultimate change in history accomplished by Sam, because as slaves, there would be no record of them.

I think that's where I may have misunderstood the episode. I always thought the runaway slave family were Isaac's relatives. With that in mind, I would agree that he had to save a family who would have died with no record of their existence. With Isaac not being related, he would have chosen his name anyway, and history would have ran its course. It's probably similar to "Future Boy," where the same outcome occurs, but Sam simply just changed the reasoning.
 
Yeah I am with you Chris I thought they were his family as well until I saw Dana's comment just now. I was very surprised and loved that twist of Issac being MLK's great great great great grandfather. (hehe I think thats enough greats, I tried to count in my head how many sons Al mentioned.)
 
RossBeckett said:
The bartender's said this(Bruce McGill), and I'm gonna say it as well. Sam Beckett is in control of his destiny. He subconsciously chooses to continue to "put right what once went wrong".

When I first watched that episode, I was only 12 and I didn't understand how or why he would do that.

But in the 13 years since I've grown-up and read my books(I'm budhist BTW) but I read a book called Journeys through time and it changed my life. But also I noticed some interesting things;

1. An advanced soul can "leap" to another body.
2. The soul can travel through time. To learn something that the soul needs to advance to a high exsistence.

Isn't that interesting :)

The only episode I didn't like in the fifth season was "Blood Moon". I still love the superstitious Al vs. skeptical Sam and I still roflmao at the scene where Al enters the Imaging Chamber, walks through the wall, sees Sam looking at the wall that Al walked through, Al turns around and screams. :lol

Yeah that episode was daft! The accents....I've been to London loads of times and never heard anyone talk like that. Everytime a certain character talked I cringed. But the parts with Sam and Al make me crack up! :D

I know I've said this before, but:
Lothos as Goa'uld
...which is actually impossible seeing that Lothos was created by the writers as a computer, not a person, so without further ado...

Lothoman(TVS/Retribution) as Goa'uld(Stargate SG-1)
Now there's a novel concept. Evil inside evil!

~Steve B.

Lothos as Goa'uld? okay, now I've heard everything! :D

I'm with Jack O'Neill --- Burns as Goa'uld! :p


Janine / Janna Galaxy
 
Janna Galaxy said:
Yeah that episode was daft! The accents....I've been to London loads of times and never heard anyone talk like that. Everytime a certain character talked I cringed. But the parts with Sam and Al make me crack up! :D

I can totally relate as living in an area with a unique and distinct accent that gets butchered on a regular basis by Hollywood (and yes, QL was guilty of it too!)
 
McDuck said:
I can totally relate as living in an area with a unique and distinct accent that gets butchered on a regular basis by Hollywood (and yes, QL was guilty of it too!)

I think the Mennonite woman with a British accent in A Portrait for Troian takes the cake. Mennonites are of German or Dutch descent. That really had me scratching my head.

QL wasn't too good on regional details sometimes. I had to laugh out loud at the craggy, snow-capped "Berkshires" in Her Charm--the Berkshires are beautiful, gentle hills in Massachusetts. I know it's hard to find a place in California that looks like the Northeast, but that really stood out.
 
Snish said:
QL wasn't too good on regional details sometimes. I had to laugh out loud at the craggy, snow-capped "Berkshires" in Her Charm--the Berkshires are beautiful, gentle hills in Massachusetts. I know it's hard to find a place in California that looks like the Northeast, but that really stood out.

Plus the fact that they drove for hours and hours and hours to get to the Berkshires from Boston, literally a straight shot from one end of the state to the other. On a good day, I can do that drive in less than 3, and that's without an assassin on my butt. Massachusetts isn't that big, guys.