The Evil Leaper Episodes - Good Writing/Bad Fiction or Both?

Yeah I agree with Helen. Not to mention they were in a laundry truck not exactly a sports car, and with a low gas tank at that (cuz the gadge was stuck and Sam thought they were full). and like Helen said, they were supposed to be going to this cabin to hide which means there would be no point if the assissin knew where it was, thus they had to get them OFF their butt before they reached it.

leaper1 said:

Ok, I've never been to the States, so I can't speak from experience like you guys, but in fairness to the writers, as a writer myself, I'd turn your statement back at you as a justification...

They took so long because they had an assassin on their butts, and hence didn't take the direct route - they weaved around a lot trying to lose the tail.

Works for me anyway.

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Take it from a native of Massachusetts, even if they took the long way, it would not take that long. You can drive from one end of the state to the other (the long way - east to west) in about 3 hours. North to south, the greatest distance is probably about 2 hours. That's one of my biggest pet peeves regarding the epiode "Her Charm". It's so unrealistic about how long they're driving.

Plus, east to west it's basically, Get on the Pike, set cruise control, go straight. No ziggin', no zaggin'.

At least they didn't try to go for the "pahk the cah" accent, so, points for them.

bluedana said:

At least they didn't try to go for the "pahk the cah" accent, so, points for them.

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Something to be thankful for. I'm not sure how the Boston accent is really perceived, but I can't ever remember Hollywood really getting it right.

I never did get east coast accents. when I was little I pronounced my Rs a little different and people used to think it was a New York accent, but I didnt even know there was a such thing. So I can't really judge how the the east coast accents were portrayed in QL but I am sure they did their best.

Jumping back to a previous topic in this thread for a moment: In Leap Between the States, I always figured that when Issac gave himself the name "King", that then changed our history, and we don't remember the previous history; before MLK.

Take A Leap for Lisa as an example. When Al disappears, St. John has no idea what Sam means by "Old Al", and he doesn't know who "Ziggy" is, or that Sam calls Ziggy a "her". And, if I recall correctly (haven't seen the episode in months), Sam starts to lose his memory of the way things were (or he is worried he will).

In Lee Harvey Oswald, there is another example. At the end, Al tells Sam "You're too young to remember, but

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)

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in the original history, she died too." [referring to Jackie]

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Jumping back to a previous topic in this thread for a moment: In Leap Between the States, I always figured that when Issac gave himself the name "King", that then changed our history, and we don't remember the previous history; before MLK

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What do you mean? Cuz MLK was born in the original history(obviously) meaning Issac had to have lived in the orignial history anyway. so why would him naming himself King change anything?

I was referring to the fictional original history.

Let's take a step outside reality for a moment, and join the fictional world of Quantum Leap. In our current history, MLK Jr. was born because Sam was able to save Issac. But before Sam Leaped into his great grandfather, Issac apparently did not survive (or at least did not get the name "King"); thus he was not there to start the ancestry which led to the birth of MLK Jr. So, in the original history (before Sam Leaped into his great grandfather), there was no Martin Luther King, Jr. Sam changed history, so MLK Jr. was born. Call it the Swiss-Cheese Effect, call it parallel universes, call it what you want, but we don't remember the history that was without MLK Jr. Because of Sam's changing of history, we only remember the history which (for the lack of a better word) 'contained' MLK Jr.

Does that make sense now?

Ah! I just thought of another example of history changing instantly, and our memories instantly adjusting accordingly: Honeymoon Express. Sam helps Diane pass her bar by helping her with that one question. Suddenly (in the future), the Chairman, who wasn't going to approve funding, changes into Diane, who approves funding for one more year. Since Al is the Observer, he's the only one who had any memory of the man who was there before. The memories of all the other people in the room instantly changed accordingly. This is to what I am comparing the King change.

I hope this helps.

In the episode "The Color of Truth", when Sam is in the jail cell arguing with the sherriff and Al's trying to calm him down, he tells Sam that in four months Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King are going to start the Montgomery boycotts. So, according to the history QL establishes in the 1st season, Martin Luther King was born so one can assume Issac escaped in that original history and took the name King without Sam's help.

jmoniz said:

In the episode "The Color of Truth", when Sam is in the jail cell arguing with the sherriff and Al's trying to calm him down, he tells Sam that in four months Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King are going to start the Montgomery boycotts. So, according to the history QL establishes in the 1st season, Martin Luther King was born so one can assume Issac escaped in that original history and took the name King without Sam's help.

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This gets really confusing; I thought that Al was speaking from the point of view of the "changed by Sam" history in his own time. So he knows that Jackie wasn't killed along with JFK and that MLK was born and pioneered the Civil Rights movement.

Aging Boomer said:

This gets really confusing; I thought that Al was speaking from the point of view of the "changed by Sam" history in his own time. So he knows that Jackie wasn't killed along with JFK and that MLK was born and pioneered the Civil Rights movement.

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I'll agree, it is confusing. "The Color of Truth" is a first season episode so it was established early on that the Civil Rights movement in the universe established by QL is pretty much the same as we know today.

To the best of my knowledge, at no point in the series up until Lee Harvey Oswald, Jackie Kennedy was never mentioned so establishing that in the original history she was also killed makes sense in a way. Sam has changed history to be reflective of the history we know.

"The Leap Between the States" is a fifth season episode and it never gives any clear indication of the purpose of Sam's leap. It can't be to make sure his great grandparents get together. If that hadn't happened originally he would never existed. The only other thing we're led to believe is that the purpose was to either make sure MLK's ancestor escaped to freedom or that he took the name "King". Again, though, it's already established in the first season that both of these things must have happened since Martin Luther King exists and both Sam and Al know of him.

As enjoyable as I find the episode, "The Leap Between the States" really doesn't make much sense at all as far as what the purpose of Sam's leaping was.

I never liked the Evil Leaper episodes, as they were not something I'd believe to happen. I see Sam, Al, Gooshie, et cetera, I think, 'they are real people!'. The Evi Leapers spoil that for me. They're what makes the final season of Quantum Leap unbelievable.
I wasn't a big fan of the Trilogy, either. That was just like a fanfiction gone wrong.

jmoniz said:

In the episode "The Color of Truth", when Sam is in the jail cell arguing with the sherriff and Al's trying to calm him down, he tells Sam that in four months Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King are going to start the Montgomery boycotts. So, according to the history QL establishes in the 1st season, Martin Luther King was born so one can assume Issac escaped in that original history and took the name King without Sam's help.

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Yes I was just thinking about that when I read AL the Observer's post above it. But I agree with Aging Boomer as well, that could also be a possiblity. Wow it really is confusing, in the words of Sam "Oh boy".

Although MLK Jr. was an important man, and even before Sam leaped he was of course born becuase he and his dream were a huge part of ending discrimination. I think it makes the most sense to me that Issac did live in the original history but it was his friends, those people with the baby that did not live and Sam had to save.

As enjoyable as I find the episode, "The Leap Between the States" really doesn't make much sense at all as far as what the purpose of Sam's leaping was.

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Yeah I never did get what he was there too do, my best guess was to help Issac's friends. Cuz obviously his great grandparents got along fine without his help otherwise he would not be there TO help.

"The Leap Between the States" is a fifth season episode and it never gives any clear indication of the purpose of Sam's leap. It can't be to make sure his great grandparents get together. If that hadn't happened originally he would never existed. The only other thing we're led to believe is that the purpose was to either make sure MLK's ancestor escaped to freedom or that he took the name "King". Again, though, it's already established in the first season that both of these things must have happened since Martin Luther King exists and both Sam and Al know of him.

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I'm fine with the third possibility, that the slave family (who was not, I think, related to Isaac) was discovered by the Confederate patrol and returned to their owners in the original history. I think John Beckett did everything Sam did (got shot, went to Livvy's farm, saw the slaves, kept quiet about it), but it was Sam who devised the scheme of getting the watchmen drunk, and it was Al who figured out the route they should take to freedom (avoiding Confederate troops based on where the next couple of battles would occur). That is, I think, the point of diversion from the original history. Isaac was always going to be freed by Lincoln's Proclamation. I would imagine he would still feel like a "King" about that, without Sam's pep talk about how things were going to change in the future. I think the subtlety comes in because normally, Al has a wrap up regarding the people Sam is there to save, not some other character. But the point of the Underground Railroad (and the slave family was simply the last "passengers" to go through this particular "station," Livvy's farm) was that the slaves literally disappeared into the North. Ziggy would have no record to access to give an update. So if we're focused on the characters who get the update, we might think that Isaac is the focus of the Leap, or John and Livvy. But they're not. The family is. And we'll never know how they went on to change our history, or why GTFW wanted that particular wrong made right, because we don't know who they are.

I get what Al the Observer is saying about MLK existing because of Sam, but I don't think that fits in to the "affect little things" idea that permeated the series. If Sam saves Jackie, it's big but not earth shattering. If Sam saves MLK's existence - that'd be just a couple notches below Jesus Christ starting a new religion for world-changing power.

Yeah I agree with Dana, that makes perfect sense to me.

bluedana said:

I'm fine with the third possibility, that the slave family (who was not, I think, related to Isaac) was discovered by the Confederate patrol and returned to their owners in the original history. I think John Beckett did everything Sam did (got shot, went to Livvy's farm, saw the slaves, kept quiet about it), but it was Sam who devised the scheme of getting the watchmen drunk, and it was Al who figured out the route they should take to freedom (avoiding Confederate troops based on where the next couple of battles would occur). That is, I think, the point of diversion from the original history. Isaac was always going to be freed by Lincoln's Proclamation. I would imagine he would still feel like a "King" about that, without Sam's pep talk about how things were going to change in the future. I think the subtlety comes in because normally, Al has a wrap up regarding the people Sam is there to save, not some other character. But the point of the Underground Railroad (and the slave family was simply the last "passengers" to go through this particular "station," Livvy's farm) was that the slaves literally disappeared into the North. Ziggy would have no record to access to give an update. So if we're focused on the characters who get the update, we might think that Isaac is the focus of the Leap, or John and Livvy. But they're not. The family is. And we'll never know how they went on to change our history, or why GTFW wanted that particular wrong made right, because we don't know who they are.

I get what Al the Observer is saying about MLK existing because of Sam, but I don't think that fits in to the "affect little things" idea that permeated the series. If Sam saves Jackie, it's big but not earth shattering. If Sam saves MLK's existence - that'd be just a couple notches below Jesus Christ starting a new religion for world-changing power.

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Beautiful explanation. That gives the episode a purpose to me and helps me appreciate it a little more now.

Oooh, glad I could help, Chris.

RossBeckett said:

The bartender's said this(Bruce McGill), and I'm gonna say it as well. Sam Beckett is in control of his destiny. He subconsciously chooses to continue to "put right what once went wrong".

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I agree with this premise, and I also believe that Sam wasn't SENT to Beth by GTFW, but CHOSE to GO. I think that when (if) he accepts personal responsibility for his choice to continue putting things right, he will be able to come home, IF HE WANTS. I think Sam would prefer to be the hero, in spite of becoming tired of it. Looking back on his leaps, I wonder which one(s) he would have preferred NOT to do in order to be at home.

Of course, this is my own personal belief system, which I am perfectly willing to check at the door when I watch or read a work of fiction, provided the story makes sense.

Back on the topic of the Evil Leapers, I found Alia's initial eager participation in the "evil plot" to hurt Arnold in the second story out of sync with her character in the rest of the arc. The writers seemed to have trouble deciding - is Alia a victim? or a perpetrator? A willing participant, or a slave? By the third story of the arc, we are firmly in the victim/slave camp, but I'm not sure the story was structured to bring us there logically.

BTW, as a lifelong reader (and lover) of science fiction, I would put QL more on the fantasy end of the spectrum. I don't think the Lothos story arc was more or less sci-fi than the rest of the series.

cookiemom6067 said:

Back on the topic of the Evil Leapers, I found Alia's initial eager participation in the "evil plot" to hurt Arnold in the second story out of sync with her character in the rest of the arc. The writers seemed to have trouble deciding - is Alia a victim? or a perpetrator? A willing participant, or a slave? By the third story of the arc, we are firmly in the victim/slave camp, but I'm not sure the story was structured to bring us there logically.

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Well, I wouldn't necessarily call it out of sync; it was more like Alia was once again forced to lead the life she lived just before she met Sam. She really had no other choice, so apparently she had to become more efficient at her job in order to save her own life. She had to step up her game a notch in order to prove to Lothos that she wouldn't take the next opportunity to escape. Although she was acting like a willing participant, she certainly would not be doing what she did if she had her own choice. I think she eventually got to a point where she became numb to all peoples' lives in which she destroyed, which helped her to do her job more efficiently.

QL Nut said:

Well, I wouldn't necessarily call it out of sync; it was more like Alia was once again forced to lead the life she lived just before she met Sam. She really had no other choice, so apparently she had to become more efficient at her job in order to save her own life. She had to step up her game a notch in order to prove to Lothos that she wouldn't take the next opportunity to escape. Although she was acting like a willing participant, she certainly would not be doing what she did if she had her own choice. I think she eventually got to a point where she became numb to all peoples' lives in which she destroyed, which helped her to do her job more efficiently.

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Well said Chris. Its like Sam said at the end of Deliver Us From Evil
"You're not evil Alia, whatever is leaping you around in time is."

Plus you can clearly tell when they meet again in Return of the Evil Leaper That she is afriad of being tortured again like she was when she failed to shoot him because when he sees her she runs and begs him to stay out of her way as to not cause trouble.

"I didn't have a choice Sam*runs off and Sam persues*...You don't understand they tortured me."

Then in Revenge of the Evil Leaper at the beginning she's all on Sam's side and fears being found by Lathos which is what gave Sam the idea to hypnotize her. Then When she's in that chamber chained to the wall crying histerically and Vivan took Sam to her to help calm her down. Sam unchains her from the wall and he sits with her and rocks her in his arms, just before the scene ends you can just bearly hear over the two secerity women arguing that she cries "I'll be good." which even though she was hypnotized into thinking that she was her host Angel; she unconsiously associated being chained to the wall with Alia's expirence of being tortured by Lothos. Kind of like in Shock Theater when Sam thought he was Jesse however he still knew the term Quark even though it didn't exsist in Jesse's time. Becuase it was part of Sam that was still in the back of his mind.

So you can tell throughout the whole trilogy that she is not really evil, in fact she was not even the primary choice for the job if you pay attention to the scene between Zoey and Thames, Zoey was the one Lothos really wanted to send but she insisted that they go with Alia which in this scene she is regretting now. So basically Alia has been doing evil solely to keep from being tortured.