Go Back   Al's Place Quantum Leap Online Community >
Main Quantum Leap Discussions
> Quantum Leap General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-12-2014, 03:03 PM   #226
Sam Beckett Fan
Senior Leaper
 
Sam Beckett Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,824
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue enigma View Post
We definitely know it wasn't Abigail or Tamlyn since they came much later (and Abigail didn't see Sam). And I doubt 25-year-old Nicole was looking at 15-year-old Sam that way while she was teaching him piano (I hope not anyway). Lisa is the only other woman from Sam's past if I remember correctly. But assuming there was no unnamed woman we never heard about in Sam's past, my guess if I had to choose between Donna or Lisa is the quote refers to Donna (even if they did do a lousy job at meaningfully building up the relationship between her and Sam).
Perfectly deducted, I agree wholeheartedly. Especially since we know Lisa didn't have much of an interest in him, she kinda teased his crush on her actually so I doubt she ever directed a 'crawl inside and never come out' look towards him.
__________________

-=-=-=-=-
Icon made by the lovely Ladystoneheart with the beautiful screen captures of StrayStar.
Signature made by me.
My QL screen capture collection: http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Sa...?sort=3&page=1
Sam Beckett Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2014, 06:17 AM   #227
Lightning McQueenie
Junior Leaper
 
Lightning McQueenie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,042
Default

I agree that there's about a 99% chance that it's Donna he was talking about (especially because he couldn't really recall who that person was - again backing up my theory that Sam has subconsciously blocked Donna out).

I was just making the point that, despite him refusing to have sex with anyone he didn't love, with how quickly and how often he does fall in love, that it's quite plausible that in his time he has split a lot of women in half so there is still a chance he may have been talking about someone else.

Another possibility is he may remember how Diane McBride looked at him when she thought he was her husband.

On a completely unrelated topic, today is Bruce McGill's (Weird Ernie / Al the Bartender) birthday. Here's hoping we can one day arrange an interview with him for the Quantum Leap Podcast
__________________
Lightning McQueenie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 10:54 AM   #228
Lightning McQueenie
Junior Leaper
 
Lightning McQueenie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,042
Default

Something I recently thought of - in Camikazi Kid, why didn't Sam leap into wearing braces like his host? They were clearly visible on Cam hahaha.
__________________
Lightning McQueenie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 03:03 PM   #229
Sam Beckett Fan
Senior Leaper
 
Sam Beckett Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,824
Default

Probably because that would have taken a lot of work and it was the first season, so a lot of concepts were still being developed like the Imagining Chamber door. Notice in the first few episodes it opened on the side like a standard door in a home rather than sliding up.
__________________

-=-=-=-=-
Icon made by the lovely Ladystoneheart with the beautiful screen captures of StrayStar.
Signature made by me.
My QL screen capture collection: http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Sa...?sort=3&page=1
Sam Beckett Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 12:31 AM   #230
Lightning McQueenie
Junior Leaper
 
Lightning McQueenie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,042
Default

An in-universe reason: Permanent or semi-permanent attachments to the human body probably do leap out to the Waiting Room if Sam leaps in - such as breast implants, pacemakers, hip replacements. Braces are a semi-permanent attachment, so they can be considered a part of the human body and so would leap out as well. Same reason why the bullet inside Zoe leapt out with her as well I expect...
__________________
Lightning McQueenie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 01:56 AM   #231
Sam Beckett Fan
Senior Leaper
 
Sam Beckett Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,824
Default

Excellent logic which also fit's as a solution to the confusion over Billy Jean's baby (which I'd always thought). It too would be considered a semi-permanent attachment via the umbilical chord.

In regards to Zoey, I agree. She had to have taken that bullet with her, how else would her leapee have returned unharmed?

This also clarifies the moment in Dr. Ruth where Al presented her with a duplication they'd created of her glasses.
True we had a contradicting portrayal of a leapee with glasses early in the series in season 1's How the Tess was Won but that was obviously a unique situation for two reasons:
1.) It was the first season and as I've pointed out before the concepts were not developed.
2.) The presence of Sam wearing glasses in this leap would have ruined the intentional mystery of the reflection. The viewer wasn't supposed to know why the other characters looked down at Doc.
__________________

-=-=-=-=-
Icon made by the lovely Ladystoneheart with the beautiful screen captures of StrayStar.
Signature made by me.
My QL screen capture collection: http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Sa...?sort=3&page=1
Sam Beckett Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 02:53 AM   #232
Lightning McQueenie
Junior Leaper
 
Lightning McQueenie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,042
Default

I think we can all agree that there's no way the baby can have stayed inside Sam, it just could not survive. The question is, what happened to the baby?

I think that it ended up in the safety of limbo
__________________
Lightning McQueenie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 05:26 PM   #233
Sam Beckett Fan
Senior Leaper
 
Sam Beckett Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,824
Default

Limbo makes the most sense, the same which would have had to happen to Alia's bullet in Revenge since it hit the leap light not her. This is a concept Tina even suggests in the novel Foreknowledge and that this must be what happens to Sam in between leaps.
__________________

-=-=-=-=-
Icon made by the lovely Ladystoneheart with the beautiful screen captures of StrayStar.
Signature made by me.
My QL screen capture collection: http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Sa...?sort=3&page=1
Sam Beckett Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 12:20 AM   #234
MichelleD
Control Room Technician
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: L.A. area
Posts: 172
Default

I'm catching up; this is an interesting discussion. I will organize my thoughts and add them later.
__________________
MichelleD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 07:00 PM   #235
Sam Beckett Fan
Senior Leaper
 
Sam Beckett Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,824
Default

Looking forward to it MichelleD.
__________________

-=-=-=-=-
Icon made by the lovely Ladystoneheart with the beautiful screen captures of StrayStar.
Signature made by me.
My QL screen capture collection: http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Sa...?sort=3&page=1
Sam Beckett Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 07:41 PM   #236
blue enigma
Accelerator Technician
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan View Post
Limbo makes the most sense, the same which would have had to happen to Alia's bullet in Revenge since it hit the leap light not her. This is a concept Tina even suggests in the novel Foreknowledge and that this must be what happens to Sam in between leaps.
Limbo is one possibility. Sam also may simply be moving through the time stream in between leaps (or the space/time continuum). He is a time traveler and is traveling in body ( ); it's plausible to assume there is some kind of movement from time to time and place to place.

I'm not as much of a fan of the '8-1/2 Months' episode as other QL fans, though I like that they attempted to tackle the issues that they did here and it's definitely one of the better mpreg stories I've seen on television. So I never really thought about the science behind exactly what happened with Billie Jean's baby, other than for whatever reason the baby leaped out before Sam and Billie Jean did. You've all offered some interesting theories to explain it.
__________________
blue enigma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 07:54 PM   #237
MichelleD
Control Room Technician
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: L.A. area
Posts: 172
Default

8-1/2 Months isn't my all time favorite QL episode, but the idea of Sam leaping into a pregnant girl was an interesting one...And as usual his response when he realized what was happening was priceless. His line to the doctor/medical staff: "I am not going to have this baby, believe me" (or something to that effect) was a great one. And then when he had his cravings and he was in labor just before he leapt. LOL. The limbo theory makes sense; of course they had to do something. A man having a baby is just too far out a concept, and it hasn't worked in films or television as Blue Enigma pointed out.
__________________
MichelleD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 03:28 AM   #238
Sam Beckett Fan
Senior Leaper
 
Sam Beckett Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,824
Default

Agreed, 8 1/2 Months while the humor was very enjoyable (how can it not be?) doesn't sit right with me for it's negative message that it's ok for a teenager to be a parent and in doing so making a statement against adoption. My best friend's younger sister is adopted so it's a strong subject for us.
Though we do appreciate that they gave Sam a line stating that he supports adoption so at least we know that he didn't completely agree with this leap and what he was doing.

Still there are much more positive ways they could have leaped Sam into a pregnant female. Or a more sensible way to have written the Billy Jean concept because teen pregnancy is a very good subject for Quantum Leap , this particular execution was just poor.
__________________

-=-=-=-=-
Icon made by the lovely Ladystoneheart with the beautiful screen captures of StrayStar.
Signature made by me.
My QL screen capture collection: http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Sa...?sort=3&page=1
Sam Beckett Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 11:13 AM   #239
MichelleD
Control Room Technician
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: L.A. area
Posts: 172
Default

There's nothing at all wrong with adoption. There are some girls who keep their babies and do okay though. In those cases they probably have a lot of support from family. Raising a child is a lot of work in the best of circumstances though, so I can understand why girls would choose to give their babies up for adoption.

It's been awhile since I've watched the episode, but if I'm remembering right, in the original history Billie Jean gives up her baby and regrets it. And part of the purpose of the leap was to reconcile her with her father also I think.
__________________
MichelleD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 12:47 PM   #240
Sam Beckett Fan
Senior Leaper
 
Sam Beckett Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,824
Default

That's just it.
Billy Jean's circumstances were NOT supportive. No one wanted her (Sam) to keep that baby and she's in high school she can't even support herself. The father didn't want HER let alone, that one woman was kind enough to put her up but even she didn't want that baby until she was thrown together with the father at the end with good reason. She was actually the one it was least fair to ask.
So you can feel that it shouldn't have worked.

Regret or no it doesn't sound like such a wrong. Sorry.

You are right though under the right circumstances I might have bought it. For example had the reconcile with the father been the primary objective and keeping the baby just happened to be a bi product of that it would have worked.
__________________

-=-=-=-=-
Icon made by the lovely Ladystoneheart with the beautiful screen captures of StrayStar.
Signature made by me.
My QL screen capture collection: http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Sa...?sort=3&page=1
Sam Beckett Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 09:07 PM   #241
blue enigma
Accelerator Technician
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelleD View Post
It's been awhile since I've watched the episode, but if I'm remembering right, in the original history Billie Jean gives up her baby and regrets it. And part of the purpose of the leap was to reconcile her with her father also I think.
Yes, that's right. In the original history she regretted giving up the baby and spent her life looking for the child. That's what Sam was there to change. Reconciling her with her father was both part of making that happen as well as being in and of itself a separate purpose of the leap.
__________________
blue enigma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 11:11 PM   #242
Sam Beckett Fan
Senior Leaper
 
Sam Beckett Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,824
Default

We all know that Billy Jean regretted giving up her baby, but I'm trying to point out that that doesn't make it a wrong. She had no freaking support system and had no salary! She was a teenager! She would not have been able to care for that baby.
Changing the circumstances so that she could keep the baby was not really a more sensible route for her. She needed to finish her education and get a good job.

That's not my opinion but to each their own.
__________________

-=-=-=-=-
Icon made by the lovely Ladystoneheart with the beautiful screen captures of StrayStar.
Signature made by me.
My QL screen capture collection: http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Sa...?sort=3&page=1
Sam Beckett Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 11:29 PM   #243
blue enigma
Accelerator Technician
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan View Post
We all know that Billy Jean regretted giving up her baby, but I'm trying to point out that that doesn't make it a wrong. She had no freaking support system and had no salary! She was a teenager! She would not have been able to care for that baby. Changing the circumstances so that she could keep the baby was not really a more sensible route for her. She needed to finish her education and get a good job.
In this case I think it was a wrong though. From what we see of the reaction of people around her, including the kid who is the father, she had a lot of pressure from everyone to put the baby up for adoption. Maybe I'm reading more into it than is there but it seems to me like there was an element of coercion to her decision - maybe she chose to put the baby up for adoption because of that pressure from everyone but in her heart never felt it was the right decision. From what little we see she put everyone's interests and well-being above her own (deciding it was more important for the kid who was the father to finish his education than for her to finish hers, etc.). And keeping her baby didn't necessarily mean she couldn't finish her education and get a good job. Sam changing her circumstances made both possible - her father was in her life and willing to help support her/raise the baby.

I agree with you that there were problems with the way it was executed, and whether it was intentional or not, some of Sam's own privilege and prejudices and insistence on his own world view come through in this episode. Maybe it would've read better if the primary purpose of the leap was to reconcile Billie Jean and her father, the outcome being that not only would that relationship be saved but there'd be the ripple effect of her being able to keep the baby and improve her own life too.
__________________
blue enigma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 11:51 PM   #244
Lightning McQueenie
Junior Leaper
 
Lightning McQueenie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,042
Default

There's another possibility. What if in the original history, the baby's adoptive family was abusive or neglectful? It could actually be the case that Sam had to help Billie-Jean keep the baby to keep it away from such a life...
__________________
Lightning McQueenie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 11:55 PM   #245
blue enigma
Accelerator Technician
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie View Post
There's another possibility. What if in the original history, the baby's adoptive family was abusive or neglectful? It could actually be the case that Sam had to help Billie-Jean keep the baby to keep it away from such a life...
That's an excellent point too. Sam and Al have no idea what happened to the baby, other than it was adopted. Sam acted on instinct and intuition in leaps, especially in later leaps, and no doubt had a gut feeling that this is what he needed to do for Billie Jean.
__________________
blue enigma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 03:19 PM   #246
Sam Beckett Fan
Senior Leaper
 
Sam Beckett Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,824
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue enigma View Post
In this case I think it was a wrong though. From what we see of the reaction of people around her, including the kid who is the father, she had a lot of pressure from everyone to put the baby up for adoption. Maybe I'm reading more into it than is there but it seems to me like there was an element of coercion to her decision - maybe she chose to put the baby up for adoption because of that pressure from everyone but in her heart never felt it was the right decision. From what little we see she put everyone's interests and well-being above her own (deciding it was more important for the kid who was the father to finish his education than for her to finish hers, etc.). And keeping her baby didn't necessarily mean she couldn't finish her education and get a good job. Sam changing her circumstances made both possible - her father was in her life and willing to help support her/raise the baby.
Once again you are missing my point which I continue to stand by.
Speaking of the original history where she has absolutely no support system, she would not have been able to care for that baby so pressure plays no role it was still the better option.
Even in with the changed circumstances most of the responsibility was on the father and the other woman who'd married him at least until Billy Jean finished high school but maybe longer. That's not very fair, to expect that of them even though they graciously accepted. Billy Jean (or rather Sam) was the one putting on the pressure now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue enigma View Post
I agree with you that there were problems with the way it was executed, and whether it was intentional or not, some of Sam's own privilege and prejudices and insistence on his own world view come through in this episode. Maybe it would've read better if the primary purpose of the leap was to reconcile Billie Jean and her father, the outcome being that not only would that relationship be saved but there'd be the ripple effect of her being able to keep the baby and improve her own life too.
Actually I disagree that Sam approached this one based on his own belief system and opinions. It was clearly stated that he'd felt for the present Billy Jean who longed for her child and that he wasn't against adoption. If it were his daughter (Sammy Jo if you will) in this situation, as a father this certainly wouldn't have been his approach.

Though I do agree that the reconcile with the father was a valid task and should have been the primary with her being able to keep the child being a product of that. THAT I would have bought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie View Post
There's another possibility. What if in the original history, the baby's adoptive family was abusive or neglectful? It could actually be the case that Sam had to help Billie-Jean keep the baby to keep it away from such a life...
It's literally not possible for her to find that out.
Back then open adoption didn't exist and the records were sealed tight so that I think even policemen were denied access without going through a complex process.
Not only would Billy Jean not have been able to so much as write a letter but even in the present (where PQL exists, the 90's) she'd gone against the law to even seek the child out.

Even Ziggy couldn't determine that for sure as all she'd be able to find if anything are reports and suspicious hospital visits. So only speculation could be achieved.
__________________

-=-=-=-=-
Icon made by the lovely Ladystoneheart with the beautiful screen captures of StrayStar.
Signature made by me.
My QL screen capture collection: http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Sa...?sort=3&page=1

Last edited by Sam Beckett Fan; 07-30-2014 at 01:58 AM.
Sam Beckett Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 08:06 PM   #247
blue enigma
Accelerator Technician
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan View Post
Once again you are missing my point which I continue to stand by.
I get your point. I just don't agree 100% with it. The whole point of Sam being there was to change things so she would have a support system. As with many other leaps things got worse when Sam set them into motion before they got better. As we said, it might've been better had the purpose been the reconciliation and then the rest fell into place. But Sam often had instincts about what needed to be done on a leap, even when it didn't seem to make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan View Post
Actually I disagree that Sam approached this one based on his own belief system and opinions. It was clearly stated that he'd felt for the present Billy Jean who longed for her child and that he wasn't against adoption. If it were his daughter (Sammy Jo if you will) in this situation, as a father this certainly wouldn't have been his approach.
I'm not just talking about his belief about adoption. I'm referring to a much more deep-rooted worldview and its subtleties that he brings to this leap.
__________________
blue enigma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 01:22 AM   #248
Sam Beckett Fan
Senior Leaper
 
Sam Beckett Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,824
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue enigma View Post
I get your point. I just don't agree 100% with it. The whole point of Sam being there was to change things so she would have a support system. As with many other leaps things got worse when Sam set them into motion before they got better. As we said, it might've been better had the purpose been the reconciliation and then the rest fell into place. But Sam often had instincts about what needed to be done on a leap, even when it didn't seem to make sense.
It still wasn't very fair to the father and the new wife, the way they were kind of coaxed into being that support.
Though apparently they'd come around to agreeing to support her it still wasn't their responsibility to be obligated to. It was asking them to fix her problem.
In the original timeline she'd have been on the streets with that baby unable to feed herself let alone! Thus her regret invalid and stupid! Before Sam there was no way she could have supported that baby.

You always have very well thought out viewpoints which I admire and respect Blue Enigma, this is no different and most of the time we happen to be on the same page but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue enigma View Post
I'm not just talking about his belief about adoption. I'm referring to a much more deep-rooted worldview and its subtleties that he brings to this leap.
Can you please elaborate?
__________________

-=-=-=-=-
Icon made by the lovely Ladystoneheart with the beautiful screen captures of StrayStar.
Signature made by me.
My QL screen capture collection: http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Sa...?sort=3&page=1
Sam Beckett Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 05:28 AM   #249
Lightning McQueenie
Junior Leaper
 
Lightning McQueenie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,042
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Beckett Fan View Post
It's literally not possible for her to find that out.
Back then open adoption didn't exist and the records were sealed tight so that I think even policemen were denied access without going through a complex process.
Not only would Billy Jean not have been able to so much as write a letter but even in the present (where PQL exists, the 90's) she'd gone against the law to even seek the child out.
But GOD knows what happened to the baby. It was in His/Her infinite wisdom that it was a mistake for the baby to be adopted out, which is why Sam was there in the first place. Sam realised this, and probably wouldn't have even needed Ziggy to come up with the same scenario.

In fact, this probably explains why Sam felt the pregnancy symptoms. They were needed so that he would know how a mother feels about their baby, and help him to come to the right conclusion. You could see that even having only "carried" the baby for a couple of days, his heart was breaking at the thought of the baby being separated from its mother, and he realised that the baby needed to be with its mother.

This leap is one where Sam had to trust his instincts. You're right, it's not logical, but it's emotional, and has the backup of the highest power.
__________________
Lightning McQueenie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 09:39 PM   #250
Sam Beckett Fan
Senior Leaper
 
Sam Beckett Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,824
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning McQueenie
and he realised that the baby needed to be with its mother.
The baby needed to be with whomever could properly care for it.
Have you even seen the film Juno? Now THAT was a smart teen pregnancy story, had they executed this more like that it would have been more positive. It even supports single mothers which is kinda personal to me because I was raised by one.

If Billy Jean's child truly was put in an abusive home than the objective should have been to have Sam leap into the agency to change the placement of the child. A wrongful placement doesn't necessarily mean that the mother keeping the child is the ideal alternative and I still stand by that it wasn't in Billy Jean's situation before Sam or rather the young black girl had gotten her father to support her. It would have helped if they'd said what happened to the child in the original history.

You're right this was an emotional based task, too much so that it was inappropriate for this issue however I do not fault Sam for his sympathy. It's who he is and he could have somewhere in his heart been considering his own missed chance to be a parent whether from the angle of Donna standing him up at the alter or simply that he's trapped in a world where no one knows who he is.
__________________

-=-=-=-=-
Icon made by the lovely Ladystoneheart with the beautiful screen captures of StrayStar.
Signature made by me.
My QL screen capture collection: http://s1366.photobucket.com/user/Sa...?sort=3&page=1
Sam Beckett Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2000 - 2016 Al's Place Quantum Leap Fan Site | 4.8.15.16.23.42