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Old 09-03-2013, 06:09 PM   #101
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One can assume that since the Project went into lockdown thinking there had been an explosion and needing protection from the radioactive fallout, that the Waiting Room was sealed off as the Imaging Chamber had been... I expect that only the Control Room was accessible at the time, for the purpose of trying to locate Sam and override the failsafe procedure.

Which gets me thinking - is there a supply of food and water in the Waiting Room? Otherwise Tom Jared might have been very dehydrated and hungry by the time they could get to him...
I need to amend my response to this suggestion but am unable to edit my last post.
Watching this episode now Sam specifies the lock-down to the Imagining Chamber while explaining to Al why Gooshi couldn't just open the door for him. The Waiting Room was not locked down.
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Old 09-04-2013, 01:00 AM   #102
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The waiting room was not MENTIONED to be locked down, but it's pretty obvious that it was, considering that the project members WOULD have thought to speak to Tom Jared to find out where Sam (or in this case, Al) was. It's directly referenced in the show that speaking to the person in the Waiting Room is how they begin to find Sam, where to try to hook up Al's brainwaves in the Imaging Chamber, and where to start searching for reasons why Sam leaps there (e.g. Genesis: "Tom Stratten is with us, how do you think we found you?" or Revenge of the Evil Leaper: "I want you to go back and talk to whoever leapt into the Holding Chamber...")
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:17 AM   #103
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That doesn't make it factual that the waiting room was locked down, it could simply be a writing flaw. Somewhat like how Al stated in Animal Frat that Sam was 16 in college but in The Leap Home Sam 16 year old Sam is about to finish High School. It's a 90's television show, flaws and/or inconsistencies are actually not uncommon for them. Obviously the dilemma of the unusual situation in this episode was the main point and probably provided by the lack of acknowledging the waiting room visitor.

Personally however I would have liked to see Tom Jared looking at Al's reflection as there have been brief scenes later of Sam's counterparts. Too bad he wouldn't be in his Navy uniform, Tom's reaction to that would've been interesting.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:17 AM   #104
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That doesn't make it factual that the waiting room was locked down, it could simply be a writing flaw. Somewhat like how Al stated in Animal Frat that Sam was 16 in college but in The Leap Home Sam 16 year old Sam is about to finish High School.
How is this a flaw? He could easily have finished school and then started university before having his next birthday...
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:19 PM   #105
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As much as I enjoyed this episode (it's one of a few I've watched twice), it does have some problems. I think the main problem is that it should have been a two-part story because there is too much going on for just a one hour episode and the whole thing ends up feeling very rushed.

It's almost as emotional as The Leap Home - in some ways, more so, because Sam is actually - finally - home, in his own time. But he doesn't get enough time to spend there and the emotion sort of gets short-changed. There is entirely too much expository dialogue at the end when Sam is suiting up to get into the accelerator - about him having figured out how to pinpoint the leap into Al, about having worked on improving the retrieval program, and too little time spent on the agony of Donna having to lose Sam all over again after having just gotten him back after four years. For his part, Sam seems so focused on saving Al that it's almost as if he's brushing Donna aside. Again, I blame this all on the story being too big to fit one episode.

The other big problem I have is how Sam remembers being married to Donna. In the original timeline she left him at the altar. I know he changed history in Star Crossed, but he shouldn't remember the altered history, otherwise his memory would have changed at the end of Star Crossed. Maybe he only "remembers" once he's back in 1999, the revised version, which is why he forgets again when he leaps back, but it's a real stretch.

I know this show plays fast and loose with the whole "swiss cheese memory" idea but this episode takes it to another level. If leaping discombobulates you that much, how does Sam even remember what he's there to do once he leaps into Al? He remembers that, but not his wife?

And while it's fun to see Project Quantum Leap for the first time, it also raises a lot of unanswered questions, like why someone can't just leap back into Sam (as they have now proven it's possible to do) so Sam can come out of the waiting room and work on the retrieval program so he can finally bring himself home. These people are entirely too passive about the entire leaping process.

It also bugs me that everyone seems to be wearing such futuristic clothing, something that always bothered me about Al's outfits since Genesis. Did they really think that only eight years into the future everyone would be dressed up like The Jetsons?

The humorous bits at the beginning, like Sam and Al standing in the park both screaming for Gooshie, and Sam trying to "feel" his way around the imaging chamber for the door, really make this episode for me. Again, the whole idea behind it really needed two hours to properly tell the story.
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:56 PM   #106
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As much as I enjoyed this episode (it's one of a few I've watched twice), it does have some problems. I think the main problem is that it should have been a two-part story because there is too much going on for just a one hour episode and the whole thing ends up feeling very rushed.
Absolutely. It feels very rushed in general and it seems like they were too anxious to get it back to Sam leaping instead of playing a little bit with the role reversal. I would have liked to see Al do at least one more leap and both guys have a little bit longer of a time to be in each other's shoes.

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For his part, Sam seems so focused on saving Al that it's almost as if he's brushing Donna aside.
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I know this show plays fast and loose with the whole "swiss cheese memory" idea but this episode takes it to another level. If leaping discombobulates you that much, how does Sam even remember what he's there to do once he leaps into Al? He remembers that, but not his wife?
I have all kinds of problems with the Donna storyline in general. I don't dislike the character as I know some fans do, just the story arc, and I definitely pick up the same vibe of Sam brushing Donna aside when he's about to step into the accelerator again. It's part of the reason I don't buy her as the love of Sam's life, as is suggested in this episode and 'Star Crossed' [and I really dislike 'Star Crossed' - I have several issues with it, but that's a separate topic]. The rushedness of the episode is a big part of that. I also personally don't find there to be enough chemistry between the two actors, even though Scott Bakula and Mimi Kuzyk are both good actors.

The first half of the episode, in 1945, is great. On rewatch I tend to now watch the first half then turn it off or just fast forward through the scenes in 1999.
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:46 PM   #107
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The other big problem I have is how Sam remembers being married to Donna. In the original timeline she left him at the altar. I know he changed history in Star Crossed, but he shouldn't remember the altered history, otherwise his memory would have changed at the end of Star Crossed. Maybe he only "remembers" once he's back in 1999, the revised version, which is why he forgets again when he leaps back, but it's a real stretch.
Actually this makes perfect sense to me. The altered timeline did not exist for Sam until he existed within it. Let me see, how do I explain this? In Star Crossed Al wouldn't realize that Sam had succeeded until he stepped out of the imagining chamber and saw Donna standing there. He even demonstrates this by challenging Sam's actions with "What if she marries the first guy?" (recall Donna was engaged before Sam). This is a concept that is often explored in the novels, I think most so in Random Measures.
It's also supported that his strongest memories while leaping is that of previous leaps when he narrates that the swiss-cheese effect has reversed while back at the project. In fact the novel Mirror's Edge explores how his memories of the project are very basic and are limited to the names of staff members that have an immediate role in navigating his leaps; a computer that is supposed to know what he needs to change in the past, a programmer who keeps that computer functioning named Gooshi, and a psychiatrist named Verbeena Beeks who tends to the people he's switched places with for a few examples. For all we know these aren't even memories, they are just knowledge he got from Al. The novel also acknowledges how his memories of "home" are mostly targeted to Elk Ridge. We get a slight hint of this in One Strobe Over the Line when he watches Edie walk out his door and tells Al longingly "She's going home." which happens to be a neighboring city in Indiana. Sam really connects with Edie based on their having a farm upbringing in common.
In conclusion after Sam leaped out of the college professor he probably got wiped of his memory of Donna including that she stood him up at the alter since his memory partially resets with each leap so he can't regain a memory that he never had and no longer exists. Whereas Al can immediately step into the new present with untampered memory of the previous. The new timeline however is suggested to gradually override the previous in his immediate memory.
Did I make any sense at all? I did the best I could. My best friend had a really easy way of putting this when we discussed this not too long ago but it's escaped me. XP

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I think the main problem is that it should have been a two-part story because there is too much going on for just a one hour episode and the whole thing ends up feeling very rushed.
My best friend and I were recently discussing this actually and we would have much preferred a Trilogy of this storyline to Abigail. I completely agree that an hour was not enough time to explore this angle. Thus causing the unsettling re-parting of Sam and Donna which Blue Enigma expresses.

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I have all kinds of problems with the Donna storyline in general. I don't dislike the character as I know some fans do, just the story arc, and I definitely pick up the same vibe of Sam brushing Donna aside when he's about to step into the accelerator again. It's part of the reason I don't buy her as the love of Sam's life, as is suggested in this episode and 'Star Crossed' [and I really dislike 'Star Crossed' - I have several issues with it, but that's a separate topic]. The rushedness of the episode is a big part of that. I also personally don't find there to be enough chemistry between the two actors, even though Scott Bakula and Mimi Kuzyk are both good actors.
I however would like to remind you Blue Enigma that when Sam saw how much pain the thought of losing him again caused Donna he re-thought it and very well may not have gone if she hadn't suddenly felt a pang of guilt for Al's life and insisted he go. It clearly wasn't an easy decision but come on, we're talking about Sam Beckett here. This would have been the ultimate selfishness for him to let even a stranger let alone his best friend die for the sake of his love life. And Donna knows that, she understands what she married into that's why she's his soul mate as Beth was Al's ("Flying was his first love, the Navy was his second and I guess I was his third, but I knew that when I married him"). At least that is the impression Scott has which is supported by the end scene of the episode. My favorite thing about the novel Mirror's Edge is it's portrayal of Donna in this way.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:09 PM   #108
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I however would like to remind you Blue Enigma that when Sam saw how much pain the thought of losing him again caused Donna he re-thought it and very well may not have gone if she hadn't suddenly felt a pang of guilt for Al's life and insisted he go. It clearly wasn't an easy decision but come on, we're talking about Sam Beckett here. This would have been the ultimate selfishness for him to let even a stranger let alone his best friend die for the sake of his love life. And Donna knows that, she understands what she married into that's why she's his soul mate as Beth was Al's ("Flying was his first love, the Navy was his second and I guess I was his third, but I knew that when I married him"). At least that is the impression Scott has which is supported by the end scene of the episode. My favorite thing about the novel Mirror's Edge is it's portrayal of Donna in this way.
The execution is the problem though. Of course it wasn't an easy decision for Sam and Donna wasn't going to let Al die, both for unselfish and selfish reasons. But because the episode was so rushed it does feel like he's brushing her aside and there is something very unsatisfying about it. For me anyway.

Like I said, I personally don't like the Donna story arc, though I like Donna well enough. I think Sam acts like a creep to her in the 'Star Crossed' episode, so right from the start the relationship bothered me off the bat. As for whether she was his soul mate or not, maybe she was. But so was Abigail Fuller in the 'Trilogy', and Tamlyn in 'Temptation Eyes', etc. Sam fell in love with women pretty easily and in the changed timeline he was doing so as a married man. I've always found the Swiss-cheesed brain thing to be way too convenient and to me it's not an excuse. But that's just my personal take on it. I know a lot of people love Sam and Donna together and interpret things a little differently.
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Old 09-07-2013, 01:04 AM   #109
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The execution is the problem though. Of course it wasn't an easy decision for Sam and Donna wasn't going to let Al die, both for unselfish and selfish reasons. But because the episode was so rushed it does feel like he's brushing her aside and there is something very unsatisfying about it. For me anyway.
I feel yah, honestly. I completely agree.

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I think Sam acts like a creep to her in the 'Star Crossed' episode
As a first impression I can understand that but as the series progresses we learn that Sam simply becomes careless and impulsive when very determined. He pushed a bit hard because he loves her so much.

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As for whether she was his soul mate or not, maybe she was. But so was Abigail Fuller in the 'Trilogy', and Tamlyn in 'Temptation Eyes', etc.
No way. No one he become involved with in a leap was anywhere near a soul mate. Those were relationships of circumstance. He became deeply involved in certain womens situations to the point where he came to be affectionate towards them. Given his particular presence in their lives I think it's obvious that he wasn't meant to be with any of them. Not even Tamlyn who was the only adult able to see his true self as much as I ADORED her.
Abigail...well that's pretty obvious. Her crap of a life was so bizarre it was ridiculous. I may be biased with her however as even as a child I can not stand Abigail. In fact the adult Abigail he slept with if memory serves resembled Donna which could be a suggestion.
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Old 09-07-2013, 01:26 AM   #110
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As a first impression I can understand that but as the series progresses we learn that Sam simply becomes careless and impulsive when very determined. He pushed a bit hard because he loves her so much.
Yes, Sam is definitely careless and impulsive when very determined. But in my opinion he didn't just push a bit hard. He acted like a creep to Donna. Were his intentions bad? No, not at all, but that doesn't change it for me. Yes, he loves her but he also feels entitled to her. We don't actually know what happened to Donna in the original history after she left Sam, we don't know how much if anything Sam knew about it, and if he did know anything he probably forgot it because of his Swiss cheesed memory. Maybe her life was better without him, for whatever reason. But Sam never even asks that question.

I'm with you on the Trilogy. I don't like it either, but it seemed to me that Sam had that soul connection with Abigail. He was definitely obsessed with her. Maybe he was just mistaking his obsession for soul-mate.
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:25 PM   #111
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In conclusion after Sam leaped out of the college professor he probably got wiped of his memory of Donna including that she stood him up at the alter since his memory partially resets with each leap so he can't regain a memory that he never had and no longer exists. Whereas Al can immediately step into the new present with untampered memory of the previous. The new timeline however is suggested to gradually override the previous in his immediate memory.
Did I make any sense at all? I did the best I could. My best friend had a really easy way of putting this when we discussed this not too long ago but it's escaped me. XP
I understand what you're getting at, but I still think one of the reasons this show tended to avoid getting into the specific mechanics of how PQL works is because they know it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, which I think this episode demonstrates. When you start to pick at it, it all falls apart.

See, for example, Honeymoon Express. Sam changes history and right before Al's eyes, one of the "judges" on the Senate committee changes from a man to the woman whose history Sam has altered. Now, Al seems to realize there's suddenly a different person there. Do the other judges sitting next to her? We don't get any kind of reaction from them like "Hey, who are you and where in the heck did you come from, and what happened to so-and-so?" To them, it's as if she's been the head judge all along. So why does Al notice the change? Because he's part of PQL?

It seems to me that if Sam ended up marrying Donna as a result of changing history in Star-Crossed, then once Al returned to PQL, as far as he knows, Sam has been married to Donna all along. He shouldn't remember the original timeline where Sam wasn't married to her. If not, then Sam should remember only the original timeline or both of them when he returns to PQL in this episode.

The fact that Sam is only married to Donna because he changed history in Star-Crossed is really something that needed to be addressed here. I'm not sure they were banking of most of the audience remembering that episode. I think they were more interested in going for a shocking reveal that Sam was married and didn't remember it. But it doesn't work for me, because it seems to me he shouldn't remember it. I think I would have found this episode more satisfying if he explained to Donna that they are only married because he went back and changed history, and while he wishes they had that life together, it's not real to him like it is to her, which is why he has to leave her again.
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:37 PM   #112
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I think I would have found this episode more satisfying if he explained to Donna that they are only married because he went back and changed history, and while he wishes they had that life together, it's not real to him like it is to her, which is why he has to leave her again.
Oof, that would be extremely painful for her and I think it would make Sam seem cruel. Unless he intended to leap back and convince her to marry the first guy she was engaged to, which I would find satisfying as a way to wrap up this story arc. I feel that's what should have happened anyway, if Sam's theory in 'Star-Crossed' about how to fix things for her is anything to go by. But as you pointed out they were going either for the shocking reveal of Sam being married and not remembering, and/or that Sam's leap back in 'Star-Crossed' worked.
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:06 AM   #113
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I understand what you're getting at, but I still think one of the reasons this show tended to avoid getting into the specific mechanics of how PQL works is because they know it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, which I think this episode demonstrates. When you start to pick at it, it all falls apart.

See, for example, Honeymoon Express. Sam changes history and right before Al's eyes, one of the "judges" on the Senate committee changes from a man to the woman whose history Sam has altered. Now, Al seems to realize there's suddenly a different person there. Do the other judges sitting next to her? We don't get any kind of reaction from them like "Hey, who are you and where in the heck did you come from, and what happened to so-and-so?" To them, it's as if she's been the head judge all along. So why does Al notice the change? Because he's part of PQL?
It's because of how Sam's and Al's brainwaves are linked through Ziggy. Since Ziggy stores information from both timelines, Sam and Al both remember what happened in both timelines. A good example is when Sam says "I lost my brother once, but I got him back". This suggests that he remembers the timeline with Tom dying, but also remembers growing up with him again.

Quote:
It seems to me that if Sam ended up marrying Donna as a result of changing history in Star-Crossed, then once Al returned to PQL, as far as he knows, Sam has been married to Donna all along. He shouldn't remember the original timeline where Sam wasn't married to her. If not, then Sam should remember only the original timeline or both of them when he returns to PQL in this episode.
Like I said, Al would remember both timelines. For example, some have speculated that
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
after Sam stops Beth from remarrying, that Al would no longer be a part of the project, or even if he was, he wouldn't be as useful because he wouldn't have experienced the same things,
this would be simply untrue, because Al WOULD have the memory of experiencing everything.

Quote:
The fact that Sam is only married to Donna because he changed history in Star-Crossed is really something that needed to be addressed here. I'm not sure they were banking of most of the audience remembering that episode. I think they were more interested in going for a shocking reveal that Sam was married and didn't remember it. But it doesn't work for me, because it seems to me he shouldn't remember it. I think I would have found this episode more satisfying if he explained to Donna that they are only married because he went back and changed history, and while he wishes they had that life together, it's not real to him like it is to her, which is why he has to leave her again.
We have to remember
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
that it is Sam leaping himself around. Therefore, it makes sense that he would subconsciously block out anything that would prevent him from completing his life's work, even someone he loves as much as Donna.


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Oof, that would be extremely painful for her and I think it would make Sam seem cruel. Unless he intended to leap back and convince her to marry the first guy she was engaged to, which I would find satisfying as a way to wrap up this story arc. I feel that's what should have happened anyway, if Sam's theory in 'Star-Crossed' about how to fix things for her is anything to go by. But as you pointed out they were going either for the shocking reveal of Sam being married and not remembering, and/or that Sam's leap back in 'Star-Crossed' worked.
THIS would have been an amazing trilogy. Have Sam leap again to save Al, the project would try to retrieve him but be unsuccessful, have an entire episode dedicated to the project and have Donna become mentally unstable from being abandoned by another man, and then in the final episode, Al would break his silence and tell Sam exactly what he thinks of him selfishly changing history for himself at Donna's expense, and Sam then leaping away to convince Donna to marry her first fiance.
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:21 AM   #114
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We have to remember
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
that it is Sam leaping himself around. Therefore, it makes sense that he would subconsciously block out anything that would prevent him from completing his life's work, even someone he loves as much as Donna.
This exactly. I've always thought this.
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
If he remembered her he might want to stop leaping. And the part of him that wants to keep leaping/feels he has to keep leaping subconsciously/unconsciously blocks that out.


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THIS would have been an amazing trilogy. Have Sam leap again to save Al, the project would try to retrieve him but be unsuccessful, have an entire episode dedicated to the project and have Donna become mentally unstable from being abandoned by another man, and then in the final episode, Al would break his silence and tell Sam exactly what he thinks of him selfishly changing history for himself at Donna's expense, and Sam then leaping away to convince Donna to marry her first fiance.
That would certainly have changed up the formula and added drama -- and melodrama, lol. I like the idea of Al breaking his silence and being the one to tell Sam what's what -- that was often part of the role he played as Sam's observer and friend anyway, but it would also tie into Al's own hard feelings regarding Sam fixing his own marriage but not Al's. And to be fair, I don't think Al dwells on it. Sam is his good friend and I think he forgave him after the events of 'M.I.A.', moved on and accepted that it wasn't meant to be for him and Beth and that Sam did what he thought was right -- for the most part. But then there's that other little part that can flare up no matter how much you think you've moved on, and that would have been a very realistic and human reaction on Al's part.
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:36 PM   #115
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How is this a flaw? He could easily have finished school and then started university before having his next birthday...
A typical school year in America ends in June. Sam's birthday is August 8th.
He graduated with a proceeding class to his own but still it should have occurred in June.
Unless he started M.I.T in the summer which isn't specified but even then he'd be 16 at M.I.T for a maximum 2 months. Guess it still counts however. So I suppose it could work.

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We have to remember
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)

that it is Sam leaping himself around. Therefore, it makes sense that he would subconsciously block out anything that would prevent him from completing his life's work, even someone he loves as much as Donna.

No, this does not fit.
Sam (nor the project) are aware that it's possible for him to guide himself, thus he is not.
There are however leaps which Sam is connected to on such a personal level that I believe it is possible that he was drawn to them subconsciously. I actually started a thread years ago theorizing this and it's still around. Though I have expanded on the theory and thus am considering re-starting it.
Example of such leaps are Camakazi Kid (boy with a sister about to enter an abusive marriage) and Future Boy (man is believed to be mentally unstable because he's attempting to build a time machine). Then there is of course the leap from his teenage self into Vietnam. That one is obvious right?

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For example, some have speculated that
Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
after Sam stops Beth from remarrying, that Al would no longer be a part of the project, or even if he was, he wouldn't be as useful because he wouldn't have experienced the same things,

this would be simply untrue, because Al WOULD have the memory of experiencing everything.
Agreed and his most important experiences would remain. He will have still grown up an orphan, lost his sister to pneumonia, his father to cancer and his faith in God. These are the most important ways in which he compliments Sam's character. Plus he could still be very sex driven just not in the same way.
By the way, does anyone else find it kinda of ironic and amusing that the four children he has with Beth are ALL daughters. XD
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:38 PM   #116
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A typical school year in America ends in June. Sam's birthday is August 8th.
He graduated with a proceeding class to his own but still it should have occurred in June.
Unless he started M.I.T in the summer which isn't specified but even then he'd be 16 at M.I.T for a maximum 2 months. Guess it still counts however. So I suppose it could work.
Yeah, I think this is either a continuity error or when Al told Sam he was 16 in Animal Frat he was simply mistaken. It is possible Sam started in the summer of '70, but it seems less likely. Like you pointed out, based on his age in The Leap Home he would have already just turned 17 if he started in the regular fall semester.

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No, this does not fit.
Sam (nor the project) are aware that it's possible for him to guide himself, thus he is not.
There are however leaps which Sam is connected to on such a personal level that I believe it is possible that he was drawn to them subconsciously. I actually started a thread years ago theorizing this and it's still around.
In my opinion it can fit though. Just because he's not aware that it's possible doesn't mean he isn't doing it unconsciously. The end of 'Mirror Image' makes it clear to me that Sam can leap to where and when he wants, as he leaps to Beth at exactly the right time and place the moment he knows he has to and wants to. I agree it can be argued that Sam had a deep emotional connection to this. But I think based on 'Mirror Image' that it's plausible that Sam was always able to guide himself, and there would have to be some emotional connection to any of the times and places he landed, and he just didn't realize it until the leap to Al's Place. I don't see why anyone at the project would be aware, except possibly Ziggy. And maybe Al would have his suspicions knowing what a boy scout Sam is.

As for how Sam would know where and when to go other than the specifically personal leaps like 'The Leap Home: Vietnam', Ziggy runs probable scenarios based on historical information, newspaper articles, etc. that have been loaded into her databanks by the project personnel. I don't think it's farfetched to assume that Sam may have done some of the input, especially early on, maybe before they were fully staffed, and with his photographic memory he remembered it, or at least his subconscious mind remembered it while he was leaping. And of course there would be some emotional connection, even to the things that weren't deeply personal for him. Certain stories probably stuck because he felt either a personal connection to them like 'Camikaze Kid' or they evoked some feeling in him even though he didn't see an obvious connection to himself. So once he was leaping those were in his mind and he subconsciously or unconsciously guided himself to those times and places. I'm not sure if I'm articulating this well. But I do think the theory can work.

Depending on the interpretation the 'Mirror Image' leap can also be looked at as a next level in Sam's leaping. As the series went on Sam got better and better at leaping. While he still needed Al's help and certainly he relied on Al's moral support Sam started figuring out a lot of things on his own without Al's help in later leaps. He was much better at it and much more independent -- or at least it seems that way to me when I watch the series in order. So I think it's plausible that the 'Mirror Image' leap is a turning point and as Sam continues to improve he can now consciously guide himself. Or maybe he can make the choice to either target his leaping or let the time stream take him whenever and wherever he's needed.
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:38 PM   #117
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So I think it's plausible that the 'Mirror Image' leap is a turning point and as Sam continues to improve he can now consciously guide himself. Or maybe he can make the choice to either target his leaping or let the time stream take him whenever and wherever he's needed.
To be honest,that idea comforts me.I mean the series ends with saying Sam never returned home.I want to believe that it would be his choice not to come back not because he couldn't.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:24 PM   #118
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To be honest,that idea comforts me.I mean the series ends with saying Sam never returned home.I want to believe that it would be his choice not to come back not because he couldn't.
I agree. I know some people interpret that last screen as meaning that Sam somehow is trapped in time and can't return home. But I don't buy it. I really believe it was Sam's choice. From everything we see in the series it fits his character. And I actually think that even though there were harrowing leaps that he just wanted to get out of as soon as possible, Sam enjoyed leaping and he loved helping other people. He wanted to continue to do that more than he wanted to go home, even though he also wanted to go home.
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:58 PM   #119
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The end of 'Mirror Image' makes it clear to me that Sam can leap to where and when he wants, as he leaps to Beth at exactly the right time and place the moment he knows he has to and wants to.
Of course but at this point he had been made away of the ability. As opposed to say when he leaped into Lawrence college at the exact point in time when a turning point in Donna's faith in men would need to be made to ensure that she marries. Whether it's Sam, the prior fiancee or otherwise. Speaking of which in my last post I had forgotten:

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and Sam then leaping away to convince Donna to marry her first fiance.
We don't know the prior fiancee and why it ended with him nor did Sam(it's possible Donna talked about it with him but he still never knew the person). Considering she still didn't end up with him even after her faith in men is restored it can be assumed that it was about him specifically or that the break up was his doing. Perhaps he was abusive, cheated or in some other way was an a**. Like Bob of Camakazi Kid. Or as was suggested in Mirror's Edge was a set up made by her mother. From which can be assumed there was no love there. If you want to look at the he left her side, than perhaps he saw something in her he didn't like, such as selfishness as blue enigma sees. There are several possible scenarios that could make this guy either no better or worse than Sam or just not anymore the right person for her than Sam.

Lets also consider this, the Sam who built the project while married to Donna had no idea he'd have no way back.

Anyway returning to Blue Enigma, there is a slight difference between how he got to Beth that second time and how he ended up in other ironic leaps such as Camakazi Kid, Future Boy and Vietnam. Still you are right and in a way he has at least some of the time been guiding himself. Or so can be speculated and personally I do.
By the way every time I watch Thou Shalt Not and Al says "Try clicking your heels together three times and saying there's no place like home" I always think about how ironically correct he actually was. How interesting is that.

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Originally Posted by ladystoneheart
To be honest,that idea comforts me.I mean the series ends with saying Sam never returned home.I want to believe that it would be his choice not to come back not because he couldn't.
Actually it's worse if you really think about it. Considering not only Donna but the entire project who devoted their lives to finding a way to bring their lost director home and his mother, sister and the brother he made a huge fuss over sparing, it's in fact a partially selfish choice to not ever return home. Not to mention unnecessary! why not return home in between leaps and perhaps even at times alternate with Al. This way he could have both of the conflicting lives he desires; the one where he touches lives and changes them for the better and the one where he is home with those who know his true self and love him.
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:25 AM   #120
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Of course but at this point he had been made away of the ability. As opposed to say when he leaped into Lawrence college at the exact point in time when a turning point in Donna's faith in men would need to be made to ensure that she marries. Whether it's Sam, the prior fiancee or otherwise.
My point is that just because he wasn't aware that he was controlling his leaping it doesn't mean he wasn't doing it. The theory is that he'd always been guiding himself subconsciously until 'Mirror Image', when he's made aware of it, and then it becomes conscious.

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Anyway returning to Blue Enigma, there is a difference between how he got to Beth that second time and how he ended up in other ironic leaps such as Camakazi Kid, Future Boy and Vietnam. Still you are right and in a way he has at least some of the time guiding himself.
By the way every time I watch Thou Shalt Not and Al says "Try clicking your heels together three times and saying there's no place like home" I always think about how ironically correct he actually was. How interesting is that.
Oh, no question there's a difference the second time he goes to Beth, because then he is definitely aware of his ability to guide himself, and takes himself to the exact moment in time and space that he needs to be.

Agreed about Al's comment in 'Thou Shalt Not', an episode I love by the way. That comment is perfect taken together with the Wizard of Oz analogy of 'Mirror Image'. Whether Al was aware that he was hitting the nail on the head or not is hard to say. But I wouldn't be surprised if Al had some sense that Sam kept leaping because he wanted to. He made a lot of cracks throughout the series about Sam the Boy Scout and in 'Play Ball' he says specifically, "If it was up to you you'd save everybody."

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Actually it's worse if you really think about it. Considering not only Donna but the entire project who devoted their lives to finding a way to bring their lost director home and his mother, sister and the brother he made a huge fuss over sparing, it's in fact a partially selfish choice to not ever return home. Not to mention unnecessary! why not return home in between leaps and perhaps even at times alternate with Al. This way he could have both of the conflicting lives he desires; the one where he touches lives and changes them for the better and the one where he is home with those who know his true self and love him.
I agree with this and I wasn't specific enough in my comment. The idea of Sam being completely trapped in time unable to go home is what's disturbing for me. It conjures up a sense that he's helpless. I much prefer to think of him as having the control and having the choice, and that eventually he would realize that it isn't selfish for him to choose to go home.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:30 AM   #121
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But I wouldn't be surprised if Al had some sense that Sam kept leaping because he wanted to. He made a lot of cracks throughout the series about Sam the Boy Scout and in 'Play Ball' he says specifically, "If it was up to you you'd save everybody."
I agree with this and I wasn't specific enough in my comment. The idea of Sam being completely trapped in time unable to go home is what's disturbing for me. It conjures up a sense that he's helpless. I much prefer to think of him as having the control and having the choice, and that eventually he would realize that it isn't selfish for him to choose to go home.
That was my thought as well.Sam thinks others too much.How many times he almost lost in people he's leapt into and gets really emotional about their problems?
Thinking him as helpless is depressing for me but hoping that he will decide to go back to his family&friends somewhere in time sounds much better.
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:03 AM   #122
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See, for example, Honeymoon Express. Sam changes history and right before Al's eyes, one of the "judges" on the Senate committee changes from a man to the woman whose history Sam has altered. Now, Al seems to realize there's suddenly a different person there. Do the other judges sitting next to her? We don't get any kind of reaction from them like "Hey, who are you and where in the heck did you come from, and what happened to so-and-so?" To them, it's as if she's been the head judge all along. So why does Al notice the change? Because he's part of PQL?

It seems to me that if Sam ended up marrying Donna as a result of changing history in Star-Crossed, then once Al returned to PQL, as far as he knows, Sam has been married to Donna all along. He shouldn't remember the original timeline where Sam wasn't married to her. If not, then Sam should remember only the original timeline or both of them when he returns to PQL in this episode.
This is another point I forgot to address earlier.
The events of Honeymoon Express don't add up for me. That indicative incident with Diane McBride replacing the chairmen conflicts with the U2 attempt. How Al thought that the committee could remain aware of the previous timeline where the U2 went down is beyond me. The Diane McBride reaction suggests that the same happened with Donna after Sam leaped out of the professor in Star Crossed, that she would have suddenly appeared from Al's perspective but not from those of anyone else at the project. If this is the case Al should have taken note of that.
While Lightning McQueenie once offered an idea I politely disagree with it.

The reason Al has the luxury of being aware of both timelines is his brainwave connection to Ziggy or so is the explanation offered by the novel series. They even speculate that both he and Sam actually established their imagining chamber connection via a sample of their brain tissues which is vaguely suggested by some to in addition have contributed to Ziggy's personality (this would explain her hits on Sam in The Leap Back LMAO! XD).
Random Measures by Ashley McConnell explores the concept most and very precisely I might add. She picked at it probably too much, Bellisario would no doubt grit his teeth at it but aspects of it are quite interesting in my personal opinion (In addition it's a very well done leap).
FYI, McConnell offers that over a period of several hours the newer timeline would populate memories in Al's mind which dominate the previous, creating a more dream like recollection of what was before. This explains quite well why Diane McBride's appearance in the chairperson's seat was initially a shock for him. After a few hours he would remember that he'd presented the project's case to her before, that she's always been the chairperson while still remembering the previous chairperson. The proposals in front of him instead of Diane just wouldn't feel real anymore which they wouldn't have been.
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:18 AM   #123
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Yeah, I think this is either a continuity error or when Al told Sam he was 16 in Animal Frat he was simply mistaken. It is possible Sam started in the summer of '70, but it seems less likely. Like you pointed out, based on his age in The Leap Home he would have already just turned 17 if he started in the regular fall semester.
There is official confirmation that it's an error.
Recently I have begun a screen capture collection and currently am working on The Leap Home which brought to my attention a specification of the controversy.
When Katie first enters and Sam's behavior makes her suspicious that he is trying to win favor to claim Tom's vacant bedroom John suggests:
"Why don't you let Sam use it until he starts college next fall".
So he'd just barely turned 17.
I had thought there was a mention.

It could however also be read as Al in his intention to make a tease of the mention figured it was close enough to accurately apply.
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Old 01-22-2015, 10:08 PM   #124
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This was a very good season opener. All dreams had been fulfilled here. Pivotal episode as it's the one where Sam is finally reunited with Donna and his working mates, but it's also the so-acclaimed continuation to "Shock Theater", and Donald P. Bellisario of course didn't disappoint at all after he made us wait for so long. Au contraire, once you saw this episode you couldn't help but feel that the show was getting better and better every minute. DPB handled everything here brilliantly. The directing by Michael Zinberg couldn't be more accurate. The scenery, the special effects, all very smooth. I think even the quality of the picture had improved with this season and that's evident since the very beginning.

Even when DPB dares to show a lot of impossible things in this episode (because it has to deal with the PQL more directly) and the "future" is portrayed in a very early 90's fashion, you never get the feeling that anything is over-the-top, not even Tina's flashing earrings. I enjoyed a lot watching Ziggy and hearing her talk. Deborah Pratt did an amazing job at providing her her voice. The things I liked the most in this ep. were the drama, the way the letter works, when Sam as a hologram scares Al in a sort of revenge, Project Quantum Leap and of course the fact that you finally get to see Gooshie, Tina and Dr. Beeks (all those other guys who never talk as well) in their entirety. I thought Gooshie was going to be portrayed as very one-dimensional but I was wrong. He's one of the best QL characters there are. Pretty enjoyable ep. throughout. One of the very few I watched with my entire family and they loved it as well.

Things I didn't like: O.K., there were some things that bothered me about this episode:

- The humor. Not talking about Ziggy's, but the one at the beginning, when Al is with the milkman and his wife at the lunch place. It seemed forced to me. Even Scott's reaction is not funny at all, in my opinion, which brings me to my next point...

- Sam as a hologram: I loved every moment when he was with Donna and his scenes at the PQL in general, but when he had to be a hologram to Al he kind of overdid it, and that's because Scott's acting wasn't that good for such a portrayal. His humor didn't work for me, as didn't his "action" sequences, when he tries to hit Clifford but he's still not there. And I know it's implied that his mind merged with Al's but his acting comes off as a bit silly. It's also implied that he's not made for being the hologram, but he's extremely slow and he shows from little to no common sense at all. Perhaps all this was on purpose by DPB so we could cheer when Sam became the leaper again, but I just didn't like it.

- Amanda Wyss's and the guy who played Clifford's acting. They were both horrible, as was the milkman himself and his wife, but the milkman and his wife were sort of two-dimensional and that's not a problem. Amanda's character and Clifford, on the other hand, were not supposed to be two-dimensional at all and they were portrayed that way. I liked Amanda in "A Nightmare On Elm Street" but she played a character there that demanded her almost nothing except for some really loud screams, but her acting in QL fell flat. She tried to be dramatic but she didn't accomplish it at all. And Clifford, well, the guy who played him didn't seem to know how to act any other reaction than utter bewilderment.

And last: I don't remember if it was both Sam and Donna who were wearing the flashing watches or only Sam, but that looked kinda ridiculous.

My favorite parts: When Donna asks Ziggy what are the odds of getting Sam back and Ziggy responds in a "what-a-shame" tone: "9.6 percent!!!". The other is when Sam gets back as a leaper and sees the Ziggy handlink in the car. He picks it up, pushes the buttons calling Gooshie, and then the thought or the memory strikes him: He's not there as a hologram anymore. He's the leaper again and he may never come back home. Very intense and emotional!!

I must confess that the first time I saw it, I didn't think Clifford was gonna die. That moment caught me off-guard. You almost never saw that sort of violence on QL, but I think that works on this episode's favor.

My rating: Good. Could've been excellent but the things I didn't like were crucial for my decision.
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Old 02-09-2015, 09:36 PM   #125
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- Sam as a hologram: I loved every moment when he was with Donna and his scenes at the PQL in general, but when he had to be a hologram to Al he kind of overdid it, and that's because Scott's acting wasn't that good for such a portrayal. His humor didn't work for me, as didn't his "action" sequences, when he tries to hit Clifford but he's still not there. And I know it's implied that his mind merged with Al's but his acting comes off as a bit silly. It's also implied that he's not made for being the hologram, but he's extremely slow and he shows from little to no common sense at all. Perhaps all this was on purpose by DPB so we could cheer when Sam became the leaper again, but I just didn't like it.
To me the humor, especially Sam verbally lashing himself every time he made a dirty comment was priceless but the problem that I agree there was with Sam's portrayal as the hologram is that instead of giving him his own version of the role they clearly had him mimicking Al's. The mind merge is in my opinion does NOT make that level of displaying Al's behavior excusable. It felt to me like the writers wanted to give us that 'what if' atmosphere of the concept but the only time he was allowed a natural response to a situation in the leap was those last moments he spent as a hologram apologizing to unconscious Al and trying to get at Clifford but that wasn't nearly enough. So I can see how the portrayal was off putting.

As for the Donna/project scenes, I've always loved them as well and they made me crave more scenes at the project in the proceeding portion of the series which is fulfilled very little but recently I think I'm coming to like Donna and buy her as the love of Sam's life less and less. Maybe it's because my eyes have been opened to the fact that the development is just not there, there were missed opportunities even with his amnesia of her to build up that relationship much like the little snippets we get of Beth that clearly tell us that she was the love of Al's life. That and the fact alone that he jumped into the accelerator in the first place suggests that he'd always put the project before her. I can see where at least two of the novelists had seen fit to portray him as a workaholic with an estranged relationship with his family.

And call me fickle but I can't get over her "I don't care" comment and attitude in regards to Al's life being dependent on Sam's leaping again even given the unfairness of the circumstances. It just bugs me. It didn't always but it has come to.

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Amanda's character and Clifford, on the other hand, were not supposed to be two-dimensional at all and they were portrayed that way. I liked Amanda in "A Nightmare On Elm Street" but she played a character there that demanded her almost nothing except for some really loud screams, but her acting in QL fell flat. She tried to be dramatic but she didn't accomplish it at all. And Clifford, well, the guy who played him didn't seem to know how to act any other reaction than utter bewilderment.
Now that you mention it Clifford did seem extremely monotone in his deliveries and Suzanne/Amanda was pretty cheesy. She actually does seem the type that is only good for a classic horror movie screaming role.

Mike's and Kelly's (the milkman and his wife) acting isn't such a big deal though because their role was small and didn't really impact the story. Interestingly for being such insignificant characters they were the ones (in leap anyway) with the best development.

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He picks it up, pushes the buttons calling Gooshie, and then the thought or the memory strikes him: He's not there as a hologram anymore. He's the leaper again and he may never come back home. Very intense and emotional!!
Huh, I'd always read that is being the moment the amnesia kicked in but this actually makes more sense.
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