a theory of al's bar in mirror image

I

ian2k6

Project QL Intern
Mar 29, 2006
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6
i think that al's bar is a place where leapers go who failed an important mission

stawpah was there to save tonchy and pete but it seems that he failed that mission lots of times and he needed sam to pretend he was a safety inspector in order for the miners to get access.

i think al's bar is like a seperate quantum leap project to help failed leapers and al the bartender is the creator and decides the missions, he remembered stawpah even after he leaped so stawpah was there for a long time. i dont think al controls the next leaps though.

maybe al's bar is where leapers go to do their last mission.

what do you think?
 
Sam Beckett Fan said:
if that was Sams last mission why did he not return home after saving Beth?
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cos sam had a choice of leaping home or saving al's marriage and continue leaping.
 
because al the bartender asked him where he would like to go and sam said he wanted to go home but he had to fix al's marriage. so that meant he would continue leaping.
 
I have always thought that it was Sam's altruism that kept him leaping at this stage.

He wanted to go home, but there would always be that driving force - just one more leap, and then I'll go home, I'll just right this one last wrong, and then I'll leap home. But of course as soon as one wrong was righted, there would be another waiting - just this one...

If he truly controlled his leaps as the bartender suggested, of course, he could have had both - leaping and then returning home between every leap.
Only that would mean he had refined the skill of pinpointing where and when he was needed, and it was never explained how that was determined, other than perhaps by divine intervention.

One for you asearcher?
 
leaper1 said:
I have always thought that it was Sam's altruism that kept him leaping at this stage.

He wanted to go home, but there would always be that driving force - just one more leap, and then I'll go home, I'll just right this one last wrong, and then I'll leap home. But of course as soon as one wrong was righted, there would be another waiting - just this one...

If he truly controlled his leaps as the bartender suggested, of course, he could have had both - leaping and then returning home between every leap.
Only that would mean he had refined the skill of pinpointing where and when he was needed, and it was never explained how that was determined, other than perhaps by divine intervention.

One for you asearcher?
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thats what i was saying, if Al was right than he cpould have saved Beth and then gone home.
 
the only way he could leap back home is if he changes history and stops project quantum leap from happening, but this would erase everything he put right.
 
leaper1 said:
I have always thought that it was Sam's altruism that kept him leaping at this stage.

He wanted to go home, but there would always be that driving force - just one more leap, and then I'll go home, I'll just right this one last wrong, and then I'll leap home. But of course as soon as one wrong was righted, there would be another waiting - just this one...

If he truly controlled his leaps as the bartender suggested, of course, he could have had both - leaping and then returning home between every leap.
Only that would mean he had refined the skill of pinpointing where and when he was needed, and it was never explained how that was determined, other than perhaps by divine intervention.

One for you asearcher?
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You hit it on the head. The whole point was that that is who Sam is, a person who will never give up and put others' needs before his own. An interesting character study would be to see Sam many years later where he goes crazy and is fanaticle about helping others.
 
ian2k6 said:
i think that al's bar is a place where leapers go who failed an important mission

stawpah was there to save tonchy and pete but it seems that he failed that mission lots of times and he needed sam to pretend he was a safety inspector in order for the miners to get access.

i think al's bar is like a seperate quantum leap project to help failed leapers and al the bartender is the creator and decides the missions, he remembered stawpah even after he leaped so stawpah was there for a long time. i dont think al controls the next leaps though.

maybe al's bar is where leapers go to do their last mission.

what do you think?
Click to expand...

I like your theory, Ian. I agree with it, but my version is a bit different. I've always thought of Al's Place as sort of a rendezvous point, where Leapers could take a break from their missions for some down time and have a drink. Also, I think Al's Place isn't quite in our world/timeline, mainly because of the "doubles" of previous people Sam has helped along the way. And as for the Bartender, I think he was something more along the lines of an angel or cosmic being, but definitely not the "God, Fate or Time" that's constantly referred to in the series. I see him as more of a representative of a higher power.

I have to say I also subscribe to the idea of "just one more leap." It's not all that hard to believe, really. When's the last time you've ever been playing a game and lost, and then went, "ah, just one more try!" Only in Sam's case, he probably felt too much of a responsibility to continually help people and was never able to break the cycle.

In regards to Stawpah's comment: "I've been there...too many times," I always took it as him speaking from his experiences as a miner, where he himself had been trapped. It's a little ambiguous for sure, though.
 
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Al's Place and Altruism

One of the biggest problems with the concept of altruism is that it ultimately doesn't work out. If you are TRULY living for others entirely and totally, you lose you own humanity. And who do you choose to live for? Sam has everyone back at the project...including his wife...even if he doesn't always remember who's back there...he knows about his family...he knows he got Tom back...there is Katie. So by choosing to help everyone else...he makes life hell for the ones who love him. That doesn't seem like Sam to me.

Somehow...the whole thing about the cop who can't turn it off comes to mind from the bartender's words. Sam needs to be able to turn it off and go home for a while...have that sabbatical. And...Then he needs to trust that if he puts himself into the accelerator again...he will be taken to where ever he needs to go. Even targeted leaping could accept divine assistance.
 
why the bartender isnt GOD?i mean who else have this power to switch souls between one man sam and others???so the bartender must be GOD.
 
asearcher said:
One of the biggest problems with the concept of altruism is that it ultimately doesn't work out. If you are TRULY living for others entirely and totally, you lose you own humanity. And who do you choose to live for? Sam has everyone back at the project...including his wife...even if he doesn't always remember who's back there...he knows about his family...he knows he got Tom back...there is Katie. So by choosing to help everyone else...he makes life hell for the ones who love him. That doesn't seem like Sam to me.

Somehow...the whole thing about the cop who can't turn it off comes to mind from the bartender's words. Sam needs to be able to turn it off and go home for a while...have that sabbatical. And...Then he needs to trust that if he puts himself into the accelerator again...he will be taken to where ever he needs to go. Even targeted leaping could accept divine assistance.
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I think that is what makes Sam somewhat a tragic figure. The artruism aspect fits. Sam takes on a new life to help others, even if he has to sacrafice his life. It's like the soldier who decides to take on a second tour of duty in wartime. He knows what he puts his loved ones through, but to him that small price is worth it for the higher cause.
 
I never thought of the Bartender as God, maybe a messanger, or guardian angel, which is why he was present in thre pilot episode.

And I have always subscribed to the idea that after he helped Al, he made either a conscience decision to continue leaping, or, he got swiss-cheesed again and forgot all about his visit to Al's Place
 
MI Issues

I still think the final black screen was a mistake. This story was my way of making sense of the whole darn thing.

I've posted this in the orig fanfic section so if you've already read it, don't worry about reading it again (unless you want to) since it hasn't changed.

NEVER
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2995691/1/

AND I still think that "total altruism" causes one to lose one's own humanity...I don't think I'd like a Sam that loses himself...there's a reason that a person is called selfless. They lose their "self" and that would be truly sad and tragic.

I want a Sam that figures out a way to come home. As I say...if Sam is controlling his leaping then he should be able to do both. Come home and go back out. By trusting that GFTW will put him where he needs to be, he's showing his faith...by learning to use the tool he created in the best manner, then he will be able to maintain the wonderful human soul he has. That is the best part of Dr. Sam Beckett.
 
asearcher said:
I want a Sam that figures out a way to come home. As I say...if Sam is controlling his leaping then he should be able to do both. Come home and go back out. By trusting that GFTW will put him where he needs to be, he's showing his faith...by learning to use the tool he created in the best manner, then he will be able to maintain the wonderful human soul he has. That is the best part of Dr. Sam Beckett.
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I agree 100% and he has shown some signs of being able to control his leaping to some extent.

In What Price Gloria hes standing in front of an uncontious Buddy Wright, and says "no not yet please". he takes off his high heels and sighs with relief then looks up and says "ok, im ready to leap now"

plus in episodes like Another Mother and Southern Comforts he can feel the leap coming which is a step in controling when it happens.

PLus there are theb episodes such as Double Idenity where he does an adorable "I am ready to leap" pose, but he knows in his heart that he is not done, so thats why he doesnt go anywhere.

i think i descussed this a little feather in a past Mirror Image thread somewhere only in a little more detail.
 
yes but in the episode last dance of an execution he wanted to leap and he didnt,he only lept after the guard did that .sorry i dont know how to say it in english.lol
 
you mean pulled the lever for the electric chair. and yes there are a couple of instances which seems to state that he doesnt control his leaping, just like there are ones that state he can, and the ones that state he can outweight the ones that say he can't.
 
plus in episodes like Another Mother and Southern Comforts he can feel the leap coming which is a step in controling when it happens.
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Being able to feel something about to happen doesn't necessarily mean the ability to control it happening or not. An epilieptic can sometimes feel a seizure coming on but can't stop it. I can feel a when a migraine is coming but, again, I can't do anything to stop it.

he didnt,he only lept after the guard did that .sorry i dont know how to say it in english.
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He didn't leap until just as the switch was being thrown.
 
Although the examples I gave were things that, if it was in your power, you'd want to stop, that's not what I was going for. What I meant is that just because you can sense something is going to happen does not necessarily translate into having any kind of control - even rudimentary - over it. Sam sensing that he's going to leap could be nothing more than a simple instinct the way an animal can sense an impending storm but certainly can't control it.
 
Yes, I understand but you used his being able to sense a coming leap as an example of exerting some kind of control:
I agree 100% and he has shown some signs of being able to control his leaping to some extent.
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and
plus in episodes like Another Mother and Southern Comforts he can feel the leap coming which is a step in controling when it happens.
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What I'm saying is that sensing the approach of something is not an earmark of having control or being able to gain control over something.

Sam's sensing the leap is also a bit of the chicken or the egg question. Does he sense the leap because he knows he's completed what he had to or does he know he's completed what he had to because he can sense the leap?

In your example of "Southern Comforts" Al's just told Sam that he completed what Ziggy predicted he needed to do so it's not so far-fetched that Sam correctly guesses that now he's going to leap.
 
oh shoot, i didnt realize i worded it that way, sorry it was after 2 in the morning when i made that post, that was totally not what i meant, but i see your point as well, and its very well said, i must agree you are probably right.
 
Emotional Control

That could simply be an issue with emotional control too. That is...with Last Dance, he's sort of "keyed up" (I think anyone could understand that)...so perhaps emotional state has something to do with the control over something.

Certainly, Sam has been learning all along. The Bartender has stated that Sam has the ability to control his leaps. That's what I'm getting at. If Sam can learn to use the tool that he has created (PQL) then he should be able to both come back to the project (e.g. Sabbaticals...hey even Priests take vacations with family sometimes) and then put himself back into the accelerator, trusting that GFTW will continue to utilize his abilities to make things right. I believe that Sam does not need to be a tragic character...that he can learn to have both sides of the equation.
 
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