Al and Lisa

[isz]

When i wrote my review about the episode "ALFL"(Al first love...Oh,Sorry i ment "A Leap For Lisa".:lol ) i mentioned ,very briefly, the next thing i want to talk about...
As you remember According to "ALFL" in the original history Lisa died in a car Accident,something that cut off, brusquely, the affair between Lisa and Al. An Affair, in my opinion, that seems to me like much more then just an affair.
Now...after Bingo saved Marcy and Lisa - Lisa didn't die,and the affair between Lisa and bingo,probably,kept on going. Would you agree with me on that?!
Anyway, the only problem with this affair was that Lisa were already merried to an unfaithful husband(That what i understood from this episode).
So my question is - after Lisa stayed alive,do you think This affair between Al&Lisa could turn up into something much more serious?! Like a long time relationship, a relationship that even might have endanger Al&Beth meeting and their merriege?!
If you let me go even farther,after ALFL we never heard what happend to Al&Lisa relationship,and the truth is we didn't ever heard about Beth from Al during the fifth season 'till MI(I think),do you think ALFL might have changed Al's life much more than we ever thought?!

 

[Snish]

As you remember According to "ALFL" in the original history Lisa died in a car Accident,something that cut off, brusquely, the affair between Lisa and Al. An Affair, in my opinion, that seems to me like much more then just an affair.

Why do you think that? Not disagreeing, just curious about what you see in the episode that tells you that.

Now...after Bingo saved Marcy and Lisa - Lisa didn't die,and the affair between Lisa and bingo,probably,kept on going. Would you agree with me on that?!
Anyway, the only problem with this affair was that Lisa were already merried to an unfaithful husband(That what i understood from this episode).
So my question is - after Lisa stayed alive,do you think This affair between Al&Lisa could turn up into something much more serious?! Like a long time relationship, a relationship that even might have endanger Al&Beth meeting and their merriege?!
If you let me go even farther,after ALFL we never heard what happend to Al&Lisa relationship,and the truth is we didn't ever heard about Beth from Al during the fifth season 'till MI(I think),do you think ALFL might have changed Al's life much more than we ever thought?!

I think the affair could keep going for a while. It could end because of duty assignments that separated them, and they both moved on. Or Lisa reconciled with her husband. Or Al met Beth and dumped Lisa. Sounds like a fanfic to me!

Al does mention Beth several times during season 5, and we know from MI that he was married to her at the same time as in the original history (because they're going to celebrate their 39th anniversary soon). In Starlight, Starbright, he says he wants to leave everything to Beth if something happens to him. In Dr. Ruth he talks about Beth.

 

[Sam Beckett Fan]

Well in the original history obviously they at least risked being revealed because Lisa had to testify that Al was with her to keep him from being tried for Marcy's murder.

Now in the third timeline when Marcy doesn't even die in the first place, I am sure the affiar went on until possibly her supposedly jerk husband found them out or perhaps when Al met Beth. Although my best friend and I have reason to believe that he was seeing Beth as well as Lisa because the photo in his room that Dobs saw when he asked "Girlfriend or fiencee?" looks an awful lot like Beth. And knowing Al its very possible for him to see two girls at once. So perhaps he broke it off with Lisa when he realized that his heart throbbed for Beth or otherwise when he met Beth if my BFF and I are wrong.

Another thing that gets to me, and sorry but I am briefly taking it off the Al and Lisa topic here, is why Chip didn't come clean when he found out that Bingo was being blamed. They are best friends so wouldn't Chip not want to see his best friend getting in trouble for something he actually did. He even says at the end "I would never let you take the rap for me Bingo, never" yet he was going to before Bingo(Sam) confronted him.

 

[JuliaM]

It could be that the affair between Al and Lisa became knowledge to either's commanding officer and they were advised to end it or risk court martial. According to Article 134, paragraph 62 of the Universal Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) adultry is an offence which can be prosecuted. The maximum punishment, if found guilty, could be dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.

Whatever the reason for the affair ending, one can assume based on the events in "Mirror Image" that it did end. As far as Al talking about Beth in the fifth season or not, it wasn't really something he did all that much in previous seasons. It seems he'd bring up his other wives much more often.

 

[Sam Beckett Fan]

It could be that the affair between Al and Lisa became knowledge to either's commanding officer and they were advised to end it or risk court martial.

Exactly my thoughts especially in the original history like I said because Lisa had to protect Al by reavealing that she was with him thus making it impossible for him to have been with Marcy.

 

[isz]

Why do you think that? Not disagreeing, just curious about what you see in the episode that tells you that.

My main reason is Al's reaction in the minute he visit Sam ,for the first time in ALFL and read the date from the Hand-link - The minute he'd seen the date he said something like "It's Lisa date..." and shout at Gooshy to center him on Lisa - he remembered the exact date of her death,even 40 years later. And after he came back to Sam you could see how much he's suffering.
To me it seems like Lisa was,probably, one of the most important person in Al's life.

I think the affair could keep going for a while. It could end because of duty assignments that separated them, and they both moved on. Or Lisa reconciled with her husband. Or Al met Beth and dumped Lisa. Sounds like a fanfic to me!

You right,could be an interesting idea for a fanfic- A interesting way of viewing Al's life if he would have married to Lisa and never met Beth or try to explore how would Al life would look like if he had a strong and steady relationship with a woman,'till he met beth...

Al does mention Beth several times during season 5, and we know from MI that he was married to her at the same time as in the original history (because they're going to celebrate their 39th anniversary soon). In Starlight, Starbright, he says he wants to leave everything to Beth if something happens to him. In Dr. Ruth he talks about Beth.

You right! I forgot that...but i'm not suurprised - "Dr. Ruth" is one episode of QL i'm just trying to forget.
"SBSL"... Well it was just a few second of the episode,so no wonder i didn't remember it at the time.

 

[Sam Beckett Fan]

I think the affair could keep going for a while. It could end because of duty assignments that separated them, and they both moved on. Or Lisa reconciled with her husband. Or Al met Beth and dumped Lisa. Sounds like a fanfic to me!

I agree, in fact I said exactly that in different words above you, but I also added my own idea. I still think that he was seeing Beth at the same time as Lisa because like I said the photo looks more like her than Lisa.

 

[Snish]

My main reason is Al's reaction in the minute he visit Sam ,for the first time in ALFL and read the date from the Hand-link - The minute he'd seen the date he said something like "It's Lisa date..." and shout at Gooshy to center him on Lisa - he remembered the exact date of her death,even 40 years later. And after he came back to Sam you could see how much he's suffering.

It's not too hard for me to believe that he would remember it after 40 years. It would have to be an awful shock for his girlfriend to die suddenly like that. And part of the reason he's suffering is that now it's his fault. Sam leaped in to prevent her death--and he didn't do it because Al didn't tell him. Al really screwed up.

Something else that I noticed is that Al turned down a quickie with Marcy--he was being faithful to Lisa, when she was married to someone else! Maybe he realized that the commander's wife was trouble waiting to happen and he just wanted to steer clear of her, but it seems like Lisa was special to him. I think Al really did love Lisa--but then, I think Al is able to really love many people. In different ways, as Dr. Ruth said.

I agree, in fact I said exactly that in different words above you, but I also added my own idea.

Er... what? I was the first person to reply to the original post. You didn't say anything above me.

I still think that he was seeing Beth at the same time as Lisa because like I said the photo looks more like her than Lisa.

It's a photo of Lisa. But then, I also think that Tina resembles Beth. So maybe Al has a "type." Anyway, I don't believe he would date anyone else at the same time as Beth. If he was dating someone else, he would drop her very quickly once he met Beth, I think, because Beth is The One for him and he would know that.

Another thing that gets to me, and sorry but I am briefly taking it off the Al and Lisa topic here, is why Chip didn't come clean when he found out that Bingo was being blamed.

Chip didn't need to because Al was never formally charged in the original timeline. After Lisa provided an alibi for Al--at the risk of her own career, which must have been pretty convincing--the charges against Al were dropped. So Chip never needed to come forward to protect Al. In the changed timeline, he let things go pretty far. It can be pretty hard to carry out your good intentions when you're looking at the gas chamber.

 

[Sam Beckett Fan]

It's a photo of Lisa. But then, I also think that Tina resembles Beth. So maybe Al has a "type." Anyway, I don't believe he would date anyone else at the same time as Beth. If he was dating someone else, he would drop her very quickly once he met Beth, I think, because Beth is The One for him and he would know that.

Tina? How? I don't see a resemblence between Beth and Tina, They bth have different hair color for the first thing! And that woman in the photo looks like Beth, her hair was dark, and in a black and white photo a blonde's hair will be grey(well I think anyway), but the woman in the photo's hair was dark.

Chip didn't need to because Al was never formally charged in the original timeline. After Lisa provided an alibi for Al--at the risk of her own career, which must have been pretty convincing--the charges against Al were dropped. So Chip never needed to come forward to protect Al. In the changed timeline, he let things go pretty far. It can be pretty hard to carry out your good intentions when you're looking at the gas chamber.

Right I meant the second timeline when Sam screwed Al up. And although I can see Chip's fear of the death sentence its still his best friend. Speaking of the first time line though, once Al's name was cleared by Lisa they had to indentify another suspect, so I wonder what had happened to Chip? Obviously he was not convicted because Al mentioned that he died in Vietnam but still, was he even tried or anything I wonder?

 

[Snish]

Tina? How? I don't see a resemblence between Beth and Tina, They bth have different hair color for the first thing! And that woman in the photo looks like Beth, her hair was dark, and in a black and white photo a blonde's hair will be grey(well I think anyway), but the woman in the photo's hair was dark.?

It's not hair color, it's the shape of her face. I realize I may be the only person who thinks this.

Speaking of the first time line though, once Al's name was cleared by Lisa they had to indentify another suspect, so I wonder what had happened to Chip? Obviously he was not convicted because Al mentioned that he died in Vietnam but still, was he even tried or anything I wonder?

I don't recall the dialogue, but it seemed like the whole investigation was dropped once Al was cleared. Maybe Marcy's "extracurricular" activities would have come to light if the investigation continued, and her husband dropped it because he didn't want his own career ruined.

 

[Sam Beckett Fan]

It's not hair color, it's the shape of her face. I realize I may be the only person who thinks this.

Hey its everyone's different vision's that make th world go round and this board exist after all

I don't recall the dialogue, but it seemed like the whole investigation was dropped once Al was cleared. Maybe Marcy's "extracurricular" activities would have come to light if the investigation continued, and her husband dropped it because he didn't want his own career ruined.

True, that would have been a problem for a large number of the boys if Marcy's secret "iniciations" got out, not to Mention Ryker's job, so he probably closed it for those reasons.

 

[Bexter]

I think the affair could keep going for a while. It could end because of duty assignments that separated them, and they both moved on. Or Lisa reconciled with her husband. Or Al met Beth and dumped Lisa. Sounds like a fanfic to me!

You may be right, in rare cases an 'affair' can actually save a marraige rather than destroy it, depending on the integrity of those involved and the depth of the affair, I beleive that Al does have integrity, despite his carry on! - Yes it does sound like a fanfic.... creative juices now flowing:lol.

 

[Sam Beckett Fan]

You may be right, in rare cases an 'affair' can actually save a marraige rather than destroy it

How so? You mean like if the marriage partner is a jerk or something?

 

[Bexter]

How so? You mean like if the marriage partner is a jerk or something?

No! But I can't tell you what I mean, I tried to type an explaination but I just couldn't. I've been sitting here for 1/2 hour typing and deleting. All I can say is it does depend on integrity and the depth of the affair.

Sorry!!

 

[leaper1]

You may be right, in rare cases an 'affair' can actually save a marraige rather than destroy it, depending on the integrity of those involved and the depth of the affair, I beleive that Al does have integrity, despite his carry on! - :lol.

Not sure I can explain it either, but I would say that in my experience (which I'm not going to detail) there are things that can happen to support this theory.

An affair forgiven can actually strengthen the relationship within the marriage, because both partners are forced to face why it happened and how they feel about each other. It can make a couple deal with their problems rather than drifting apart. If the wronged partner can truly forgive it shows that there is something there worth preserving.

Also the offending partner can sometimes 'wake up' and realise that they have been going for takeaway burgers when they have steak at home. In other words, the grass may not be greener on the other side. They then appreciate their partner more because they see that the one they married is the best one for them after all.

Probably not explained very well, but that's my take on it anyway.

 

[isz]

so I wonder what had happened to Chip? Obviously he was not convicted because Al mentioned that he died in Vietnam but still, was he even tried or anything I wonder?

I don't remember something like that,during ALFL...When did Al asy it?

 

[Snish]

I don't remember something like that,during ALFL...When did Al asy it?

I think it's early in the episode, before Al realizes things have gone wrong. He's telling Sam about Chip and says that Chip was shot down over Vietnam. But there's never any mention, in any of the timelines, about Chip being accused of killing Marcy.

 

[Sam Beckett Fan]

I think it's early in the episode, before Al realizes things have gone wrong. He's telling Sam about Chip and says that Chip was shot down over Vietnam. But there's never any mention, in any of the timelines, about Chip being accused of killing Marcy.

Yeah that's it, its during the scene of Al's first appearence when he had come in from the Cougar.

No! But I can't tell you what I mean, I tried to type an explaination but I just couldn't. I've been sitting here for 1/2 hour typing and deleting. All I can say is it does depend on integrity and the depth of the affair.

Sorry!!

Nevermind then, its off topic anyway. Thanx Bexter.

Oh and thank you Helen.

 

[Bexter]

Nevermind then, its off topic anyway. Thanx Bexter.

Oh and thank you Helen.

Not necessarily! and btw: Helen's explanation was excellent. But I have given it a lot of thought on how I could explain what I meant and have come up with this, I'll try and be brief:

Fanfic Fodder, may not actually be true to the episode:

Lisa is married to an all round nice guy! He's great, everyone likes him and they have been happily married for a while, but after a while she finds him lacking in a few areas, maybe he's too quiet, too serious and doesn't take risks so suddenly she starts the hubby-grumps (attend one session of any play-group and you'll know what this is, i wonder how many mums have innocently turned up at play-group and left hating their husbands and filing for divorce) Anyway, then she meets Al, he's funny, brash and flys by the seat of his pants, she's instantly attracted because he's everything she think is lacking in hubby. They become friends and Al likes her too, they have lunch, chat by the coffee machine and then slowly slowly things develop, lunch becomes drinks after work with friends and then by themselves and Lisa starts the "I'm working late" "I'm going to the movie's with a girlfriend" etc etc. Then one day it happens, it may be a look, a touch, or even a friendly good bye kiss, that becomes something more in a deserted underground car park next to her gorgeous forrest green soft top saab with leather cream interior!!! And they realise they are in love. The meetings continue for a while with some intimate moments.

So where to now: They can't go back and they can't go forward as she has baggage, so does she leave her baggage and go forward with Al or what?

So this is where the depth and integrety come in, they are in love, but not unfaithful and they both have a descision to make. Al knows her hubby's a nice guy, he's done nothing wrong and he really loves Lisa. Lisa still loves him but loves Al's qualities, neither wants to hurt him. Despite his love for her he suggests that they don't continue with this relationship and she give hubby another go, but talk to him and tell him that she wants him to look at the areas that a bothering her. She's not dumb either and she looks to the future and thinks, well I leave hubby and marry Al but what happens down the track when I get the hubby grumps with him and he's too loud, doesn't take life seriously enough and too impetious. Or Maybe Al encourages her to think this way. Does she then leave Al and choose another horse on the roundabout, and keep going until she runs out of horses and ends up a bitter and lonely old woman?

They both have the sense and the integrity to realise that they should stop walking down this dangerous path before its too late.

They part, and then they share one more phone call, she's heard Al's moved on and she's a little upset and wants to know how he can forget her so quickly.. even though she's done what he suggested and looked at ways of making her marraige better. The phone call ends and they never hear from each other again........

*************************

And here I am years later, married myself, I wonder about him sometimes, and wonder if he thinks of me, I wonder if his marraige survived and improved........... but most of all I wonder what happended to his gorgeous forrest green saab soft top with the leather cream interior!!!

No do you understand why I found it hard to explain?

 

[Sam Beckett Fan]

Ok I see what you are saying but what's the part where the affair was good for Lisa and Hubby?

(attend one session of any play-group and you'll know what this is, i wonder how many mums have innocently turned up at play-group and left hating their husbands and filing for divorce)

Never done this, I am only 20 and too young to be married(Although my mom was but I am far from being her), I have not even had my first bf yet(sad but true ) So what is the term Hubby-grumps used for?

 

[Bexter]

Ok I see what you are saying but what's the part where the affair was good for Lisa and Hubby??

Because in this scenario, she stays with hubby and realises that although it would be easy to leave and start again with someone else, sometimes its better to stay put and work on the marraige you already have. The person who fell in love with her (in this case Al) was strong enough and unselfish enough to make her realise that there will always be someone out there you will fall in love with if you don't look at the positives of what you already have. As I said, this is RARE!!! and sometimes when a relationship is physically and/or mentally abusive a partner does need to walk away.

And just so there is absolutey no confusion! In the scenario I mentioned, my role was that of Als, not Lisa's and it was a long long long time ago.

Never done this, I am only 20 and too young to be married(Although my mom was but I am far from being her), I have not even had my first bf yet(sad but true ) So what is the term Hubby-grumps used for?

Hubby-grumps is something I came up with, its the familiarily breeds cotempt thing. And I noticed at playgroup its prevelant. You arrive thinking that your husbands quite a nice chap and all is well, then after sittling there with these other women for a while, while the kids play, you listen to them whinge about there husbands/partners and before you know it your thinking "Well her hubby doesn't help her around the house and she thinks he's a jerk and mine doesn't either so he must be a jerk too" and then they are all trying to outdo each other with "my husbands a jerk because...... " Its really quite scary :hair I didn't attend play-group for long but found something similar to help my son's development because of the above reason. I didn't happen all the time, I'm probably exagerating a little BUT I did notice and found it quite amusing at times.

 

[isz]

As i recall, Lisa told Sam in "ALFL",that her husband is a "serial cheater and he sleeps around with any skirt he sees"...or something like that.

 

[Sam Beckett Fan]

Thanx for the explination Bexter. I understand now.

As i recall, Lisa told Sam in "ALFL",that her husband is a "serial cheater and he sleeps around with any skirt he sees"...or something like that.

Sorry I don't recall that but that makes sense, and Kristen and I just assumed that he was a jerk, purposly being unfaithful to her for his own pleasure.

 

[Bexter]

As i recall, Lisa told Sam in "ALFL",that her husband is a "serial cheater and he sleeps around with any skirt he sees"...or something like that.

Well in that case........ Give him the flick and move on darlin':lol

(In previous chats with ATO, he'd never heard of the phrase 'giving the flick' so in this case it means kick him up the backside till his nose bleeds and throw his suitcases out after him... hee hee)

 

[Al The Observer]

And now I have a new phrase.